Oral History Interview with Henry Molina, 1997

Oral History Interview with Henry Molina, 1997 Molina, Henry Interview conducted by José Angel Gutiérrez, Ph.D., J.D. Interview transcribed byKaren McGeeJosé Angel Gutiérrez Transcript converted to XML encoding byJulie Williams Center for Mexican American Studies, University of Texas at Arlington Texas State Library and Archives Commission 80 pages; 142 KB

Published online as part of the Tejano Voices Project.

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Literary rights and title are owned by the University of Texas at Arlington Libraries.

2001

Source: MS-Word file transcript of video recording CMAS No. 14.

Oral history interviews published online as the Tejano Voices Project, partially funded by a grant received in 2001 from the Texas State Library and Archives Commission's TexTreasures program.

English Spanish Molina, Henry Gutierrez, Jose Angel University of Texas at Arlington. Center for Mexican American Studies Bustamante, Albert Gonzalez, Henry B. Bonilla, Henry Cisneros, Henry Zaffirini, Judith Lee Pena, Albert Raza Unida Party (Tex.) League of United Latin American Citizens Texas--Dept. of Licensing and Regulations Texas Association of Mexican American Chambers of Commerce San Antonio College Mexican Americans--Texas--Interviews Political campaigns--Texas Politics, Practical--Texas--Karnes County Mexican Americans--Texas--Political activity Mexican American leadership--Texas Race discrimination--Texas Mexican-American business enterprises--TexasHispanic American businesspeople--Texas oral history interview Tejanos Chicanos politics Zaffirini, Judy Martin, Pepe Obledo, Mario Moran, Oscar Morales, Dan Molina family La Raza county judge LULAC TAMACC

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Oral History Interview with Henry Molina, 1997 Center for Mexican American Studies (CMAS)Interview Number 14 Mexican American Public Figures of Texas Interviewee: Henry Molinas Interviewer: José Angel Gutiérrez, Ph.D., J.D. Transcribers: Karen McGee and José Angel Gutiérrez Date of Interview: April 12, 1997 Location of Interview: San Antonio, Texas Number of Transcript Pages: 80 Cite as: Oral History Interview with Henry Molina, CMAS 14, Special Collections, University of Texas at Arlington Libraries. Henry Molina Dr. Gutiérrez: Now this is a, this is a. Thank you. This is a voluntary gift that you are making to the archives at the University of Texas at Arlington? Mr. Molina: Yes. Dr. Gutiérrez: And you know that this is a video, a demographic study of your life in terms of your politics and, and who is the persona of Henry Enrique Molina and all that. Mr. Molina: That’s right. Dr. Gutiérrez: OK. You are waiving any rights to your image or your voice or anything? Mr. Molina: That’s correct. All yours. Dr. Gutiérrez: Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Molina: OK. Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, we are at, what is the address? Mr. Molina: It is 5830 Cary Grant. Dr. Gutiérrez: 5830 Cary Grant, San Antonio, Texas. Today is the 12th of.... Mr. Molina: 12th day of April. Dr. Gutiérrez: April, 1997. We are in the backyard with Henry Enrique Molina and his parrot. In case there is a screech, that is... Mr. Molina: Gordito . (Fat one, name of the parrot.) Dr. Gutiérrez: What was that? Mr. Molina: Gordito . Dr. Gutiérrez: Gordito . All right. All right. We are going to cover four areas Mr. Molina. We are going to cover your early childhood; where your parents are from; your grandparents; and how you grew up and so on. Then we are going to get into the area of your political notions, when you got politically aware; your political career; all that it has been. And then third we are going to talk about some of your politics; some of the things that you have done, and your views and issues. And then we are going to close with some comments about leaders and organizations and issues that you might have. Mr. Molina: OK. Dr. Gutiérrez: So, tell us who is Henry Molina in terms of the background and the past. Mr. Molina: To start with, we are on the street called Cary Grant and a very famous actor, very well known, and I was, you reminded me of something else and that it is marvelous, day, beautiful day in April, but I was reading a, some works by John Steinbeck the other day. And John Steinbeck, who is a, a great author and sold a lot of books and what not and did the Grapes of Wrath about migrant workers and did the Of Mice and Men, again about migrant workers, and I looked on the Internet for more information on, on, on Steinbeck and how he wrote about migrant workers. And then I said, well, you know, there was another Latino named Cesar Chavez. I wonder what his life is about on the Internet? Now, there are volumes of pages on the Internet about John Steinbeck; but he wrote about migrant workers. Cesar Chavez actually did the work of migrant workers and also did, tried to organize the, the labor movement program. So, I looked on the Internet for him, for Cesar Chavez and the only thing I found was Julio Cesar Chavez, the boxer. Nothing on our, our man Cesar Chavez from California. So, I asked the Internet why. You know, what is the reason for that? And the reason goes back to, of course, media and publicity and which is what I do, and also of these communications. And I think that has been the main lack of, that has been our, our struggle, is to have our communications in the, in the main stream media. So, I am really glad that you are doing this for the University of Texas at Arlington because I think it will help someone in the future and, but Karnes City, Texas is where I am from and I was actually born in Hobson, a little ranchito, un ranchito . (ranch, little ranch.) Dr. Gutiérrez: How do you spell that? Mr. Molina: Hobson is H-O-B-S-O-N. It is between Heart City and Fall City; about maybe a hundred people live there, all farmers, migrant workers. You know, they go to West Texas. I used to go to West Texas to pick cotton, which I did. And my father did and my father’s father, and my grandfather did, and my great-grandfather did. Dr. Gutiérrez: What are all their names? Mr. Molina: Um, my great-grandfather, Donaciano Molina passed away. My grandfather, Incarnacion Molina. My father, Andres Molina, and my name Enrique Molina. Dr. Gutiérrez: All from Karnes County? Mr. Molina: All from Karnes County. In fact, we are a six generation Texan. Dr. Gutiérrez: So, that was before there was a Karnes County? Mr. Molina: Uh, It would be right back then, yes. I don’t even know. In fact, my great-great-grandfather was here also, but it was still, we, we still don’t have a lot of documentation on that. Dr. Gutiérrez: And the grandmothers? And the great-grandmothers too. Tambien . (Also.) Who are they? Mr. Molina: Serenil. My grandmother was Serenil and Dr. Gutiérrez: How do you spell that? Mr. Molina:S-E-R-E-N-I-L. Serenil. And they are still around too. And my grandmother passed away about 1974. And that is on my father’s side. My mother’s side is Fernandez, again, tambien (also) from Karnes City. So, we are from that area. When I was, my father worked at a gas station in, in Fall City. The first gas station in, in Fall City. It is not there anymore, but it was a Texaco. And when I was eight years old, we moved to Karnes City. He wanted to open up his own business, his own Texaco. And he did. Any my first, my first experience with facing discrimination was when I was eight years old. My, we had our, we were going to have our pictures taken one day and my mother said we, we will get a haircut. Tomorrow is the picture taking day. And my grand, my uncle had a barber shop. And it was a Monday. My grand, my uncle, my uncle was closed. So, she drove around the corner. She is like, go inside that barber shop right there and go inside and tell them that you want your hair cut. That is all. Eight years old. And, and she dropped me off and, and, and drove around the block. And so I went inside and sat in the chair and the barber says, says, what do you want? And I said I want to get a haircut. And he says, we don’t cut Mexican’s hair. And I said, well, I am an American. And it, it stunned him. I don’t how it happened. Just eight years, I said, I am an American. And he cut my hair. And then I went outside and, and mom picked me up and she said, oh, very nice haircut. And that was it. I never thought about it again. As I grew older, I, I, I then learned why he had done that, you know, and, and that the, and that they just didn’t cut Mexicano’s hair back then, Latino’s hair back then. About five years ago, there was a book written about some of the history of Karnes City and the gentleman that wrote the book was named Thonoff and he came to my office in San Antonio and he said I would like to present you with this book. He says, "I have autographed it for you. He says here Henry. You have been a good, you were a student of mine, and I have always liked you and here I would like to give you this book." Dr. Gutiérrez: What is his name again? Mr. Molina: Thonoff. T-H-O-N-O-F-F. He is a former County Judge in Karnes County and he was a principal of the school and, and an educator in Karnes City. Dr. Gutiérrez: First name? Mr. Molina: Historian. Robert Thonoff. Robert Thonoff. And I got the book and I opened it up and I said, and it was open, it was dedicated to the Mills Barber Shop. And I laughed. I said, "you know, it is really funny that I am getting this book from you and it is dedicated to them because," and I told him the story. And he apologized. He says, "I am sorry. That is the way it was back then. I, I really am embarrassed, but I wrote the book and here it is." How ironic that a book dedicated to them was given to me. And I always, I always think about that incident every time I see Mr. Thonoff. That is the way it was back then in Karnes City. Dr. Gutiérrez: What else happened to you when you were a little kid that you remember? Mr. Molina: That was the main, that was the main thing. And you know, I didn’t realize that, realize how it affected me until one day I was talking to some people at the small business administration and they said, "you have got to have thoughts on discrimination." I said, "well, I don’t know if I did." And then I thought about that and I said, "yes." You know..... Dr. Gutiérrez: Well.... Mr. Molina: That, that was the main thing that, that stuck in my mind. I had forgotten about it until I was twenty eight years old, so, but it, it was there. Dr. Gutiérrez: I am sure that it is still going on, no? Mr. Molina: Right now it is worse than ever. Right now it is worse than ever. We still have streets that are not paved in Karnes City. Dr. Gutiérrez: On the Mexican side? Mr. Molina: Yeah, yeah. Latino side of town... Dr. Gutiérrez: Which side is that? Mr. Molina: We still have um, well, there is two sides. Across the railroads, you know, and, and it is actually the north side of town and south of Karnes City. But we only have, we only have three county wide elected officials that are Latino and we have seventy percent Mexican-Americans that vote there. So, you know, you wonder why? What is it? It’s seventy percent. And up until five years ago, we didn’t have any elected officals.... And now, we have got three of them. We have got two County Commissioners and one, and one, well, we have a Justice of the Peace and one Constable, which is not a county-wide race. So, actually we have two. Oh, we have a County Clerk that was appointed and then she was elected by, by like twelve votes or so, so she barely won the election, but she won. Dr. Gutiérrez: And on the city and school and Mr. Molina: City? We have one. One, one, one City Councilman and school district, I think we have two. But, it is just rampant and what bothers me the most is that I, I really don’t see a change. We have fought and worked hard and everything, but it, it, the change is very hard in coming. Dr. Gutiérrez: What, what did you all speak at home? What language? Mr. Molina: Both. Both languages. Spanish and English both. And we still do. And so I am proud that all, both, all my brothers and sisters all speak both languages, you know. Muy bien. Yo nomas asi . (Real good. I’m so-so.) Sino... Muy bien . (Or...Real good), you know. Dr. Gutiérrez: When did you become Henry? Mr. Molina: Since the beginning. I think I got that from Henry Guerra. We saw him on the news all the time. Henry Guerra was a, a television announcer here in San Antonio and, and very highly respected, very well known; and at the same time, Henry B. Gonzales. Henry B. Gonzales, I met him when I was ten years old. He was down there campaigning for Jack Kennedy in 19.... I think it was 1960. Yeah, because I was, I was twelve years old and my father was the president of the Benito Juarez Association there and he brought Henry B. down to, and he was campaigning for Jack Kennedy and he, I met him at the court house, at the Karnes County Courthouse. And he said, son, I hope one day you will get into politics. And with a name like Henry. And, well, he got, when he got me behind the scenes, working behind the scenes in, in political campaigns and what not. And I see him often here in San Antonio and I remind him of those days and he remembers it when we were down in Karnes County. Our judge back then was County Judge Ted Butler, who then became a district attorney in San Antonio and he was a U. S. Attorney for awhile. And his, his family was very wealthy, still very wealthy, and they actually ran the county down there. But he was there when we brought high, strong Democrat, big Democrats. When I ran for county judge, Ted Butler endorsed me and supported me, which was ironic because he says, you know, we have a Republican running as a Democrat and Democrat running as a Republican, but I am supporting the Republican because he is really a Democrat, and he came out publicly and said that. Dr. Gutiérrez: That was you? Mr. Molina: That was me. And, and I ran for county judge in, I believe it was 1994 election. ‘94, ‘96. It has been so long. Yeah, ‘94. And I went down there to try to break and the establishment where, well, the establishment was in place for a hundred and forty years. A hundred and forty years under Democrat leadership and we never had, and we are the fourth poorest county in the, in the, in the state. And I said let’s do something. Let’s, let’s go down there and create a two Party system. And we did. We created the two Party for the first time in the history of Karnes County there was a Republican Primary. And all my workers were Mexicanos. Latinos. Dr. Gutiérrez: Since reconstruction Karnes County has not had a..... Mr. Molina: Has never had, they didn’t know what to do. When I went down (parrot too noisy) Dr. Gutiérrez: That is Gordito. Mr. Molina: I think when I said the word Republican he went crazy. OK. Cut it out. I think I said the word Republican, he went out of his mind, huh? So, we had, we started the two Party system and we fought a system that was a hundred and forty years old. And it was a good race. And I spent about six thousand dollars on the race. My opponent, who used to have a restaurant that said "No Mexicans Allowed" and who still has his picture in the restaurant with Phil Gramm, actually switched parties because he would vote in the Democrat primary, but always supported Republican candidates in, in the state election, general election. He switched parties to run against me and a friend of mine saw him at a watch repair shop one day and he said that no, no. We can’t have this guy Molina run for judge in Karnes County or run for judge in Karnes County. And so, he spent about fifty thousand dollars and he beat me on the last box that came in; which we couldn’t find the box. It was about midnight and we finally found the box in the middle of the courthouse floor and I lost by a thousand votes. It was a very bitter, very heavy loss for me because I really wanted to do something for the area. But things haven’t changed. His whole campaign was I am here; I have been here; I will be here, and I had been gone since ‘66 to ‘94 when I went back to run and then they said they consider me an outsider. But, it was a good turnout. We got about forty six percent of the Latino vote, we got a hundred percent of the Black vote, but they had Polish folk that voted to about eighty nine percent and that is how they, they beat us. They organized. With a lot of money you can do that. And, but those were the experiences I had this, this political experience with, within the county there. Karnes County. Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, are you a Republican? Mr. Molina: I vote in the Republican primary for one reason and I started, my wife, I was married for sixteen years, and my ex-wife, we lost four children. She had four miscarriages. The abortion issue was very, very, very personal with me. I, I don’t like abortions and that is one stance that I would never agree with the Democrats unless they, they change their stance. And so because of that I expressed my opinion in that manner, voting in the Republican primary. In the, in the general election, my, one of my best friends is Albert Bustamante, who I helped a lot in the, in the general election. I, I campaigned for him in the last race he ran against Henry Bonilla. I did three publicity campaigns with Henry Cisneros. I had receptions at my house for Frank Tejeda, who has passed away. I was very proud to have supported Jose A. Gutierrez when he ran for the U. S. Senate. I was extremely proud that we had him running for the Senate and I still believe, to this day, that if he had of had more money, he could have won. And I still believe, in my heart, that he won every single debate there was. Every single debate. At Rice University, at University of Houston, at Trinity University, and in Dallas at KLR.... I think it is KLUT, the public station there. [KLRN] He won. And I was proud to have walked side by side with him and walked and traveled with, the highways of Texas to win that race. So, if you say die-hard Republican, no. I have voted for more Democratic candidates in my life than I have Republican candidates, but I did support Roy Barrera in his campaign against Jim Mattox. And I, I vote in the Republican primary simply because of that abortion issue. Which, like I said, I could, I never was a father. I would have been a father to four, four children and we lost those four kids and so whenever the abortion issues is a very personal issue with me. Dr. Gutiérrez: Do Republicans help Hispanics? Mr. Molina: You know, I see that Party taking one step forward and eight back. When Roy Barrera ran for office, ran for office, they helped him in the primary and then the general came; Trammell Crow was his Treasurer; and then, then in the general election, he backed off and Roy lost the race against Jim Mattox by a very, very slight margin because of lack of money. At the same time, when I ran, they went down there the three times to help me in my campaign. Governor Bush went down there and he campaigned, of course, for himself and for me. Kay Bailey Hutchinson, letters and pictures endorsing me in the newspaper; Karen Hughes was executive Director of the Republican Party went down there. They helped me with money. I had.... They went down there to organize the, the campaign for me. So, they did, they did help me a lot. They thought I could win. At the end, Royal Massay, who was the campaign organizer said, ".you, you lost because your name was Molina and I am really sorry." Because they used my campaign as a model throughout the state. But, I think, on a state-wide level, they were, they were sensitive to our issues down there because we still had plenty of issues that we haven’t gotten, but, but locally, of course. No, they didn’t help me. Dr. Gutiérrez: So, can we infer from your statement that, that, that the Phil Gramms and the George Bushes and the Kay Bailey Hutchinsons and all those people that have run in Karnes County have carried, as Republicans, except you? Is that what you meant when you said you lost because your name was Molina? Mr. Molina: Yes. Yes. Every.... Never has.... Even Kika De la Garza [former Congressman], who was very popular, he was very popular in South Texas, did not carry Karnes County. Ruben Hinojosa [curent Congressman] did not carry Karnes County when he ran for Congress. He is Democrat. Both of those are Democrats. Roy Barrera did not carry Karnes County, but Reagan did. Dan Diaz, Diego Pena did not win Karnes County. Teressa Doggett, who is a Black lady that ran for Comptroller, ran for, for, against John Sharp, she lost in Karnes County. Every minority that has run in Karnes County, Republican, has lost and some of the Democrats, some of the Democrats, is that.... if that bothers you, I can put him [the parrot] inside. And some of the Democrats that are minority have lost in Karnes County. Yes, so racism exists blatantly, blatantly in Karnes County. They still say "boy", they still say "that colored boy over there". You know, but the thing is to educate the people; try to tell them; we try to help them and tell them; advise them; and sometimes they just won’t listen. It, it, it is a tough town to be in. Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, I suppose that the Mexicans depend on the Whites for jobs, no? Mr. Molina: Yes. Dr. Gutiérrez: So that there is an economic sanction to step out of line, so there must be some economic fear of reprisals? Mr. Molina: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. A lot of people told me, I just can’t say anything because my boss will fire me or what not. You want to put that on pause for just a second? Dr. Gutiérrez: Sure. Mr. Molina: If you put it on pause for a second, I will take him [the parrot] inside. Dr. Gutiérrez: All right, we are recording again. Let’s go back to when you were growing up. What kind of things did you do in high school? Did you play football? Did you join the speech club? Did you Mr. Molina: Both. Both. Well, in elementary school I was in, in, in football. In high school Dr. Gutiérrez: They had football in elementary school? Mr. Molina: Junior high school. Dr. Gutiérrez: Oh. Mr. Molina: Junior high school. I was in, in the band. I played a trumpet. I played a trumpet. I was considered the most well mannered kid and the friendliest kid and the best dressed kid. Those three. But, I was in debate. I was in debate and I was in the one act play. There was a teacher that came in from out of town, not from Karnes City, came in from out of town and, and she says, I really want you in my speech class. We got in there and she says I want you in the UIL one act play and which we won. I think I was one of the best actors in that. I, I really, really enjoyed it. But, but what I did during my, during my, I always worked. My father, when he, for the gas station was fine and everything, but he wanted to make more money, so he came to San Antonio to open up a gas station there. Right there on the corner of Broadway and Mulberry, where Kiddie Park is. The biggest, probably the biggest gas station in town. So, what I did for, in high school for money is during the week I would go and collect bills that people owed my dad because he would give a lot of credit. And that is how I lived on, in high school. Dr. Gutiérrez: OK. Did you all move with him up here? Mr. Molina: No. No. He would go home on weekends. Dr. Gutiérrez: I see. So, you still stayed in Karnes? Mr. Molina: I stayed in Karnes City and graduated, made it with honors, graduated from a small high school. It was a small town. They were, our roots are there. And so we went to school in Karnes and on weekends I would come up and work at the gas station. Dr. Gutiérrez: Do you have brothers and sisters? Mr. Molina: Yeah. I am very proud of my brother and my sister. My sister is now in, in Hawaii. She is married to a Naval officer and I have a brother in California who works in a warehouse. He is a shipping clerk; has a family in California. He moved over there; likes it a lot; and, and in Corona, California. Dr. Gutiérrez: What are their names? Mr. Molina: Jerry, Jerry Molina. My sister is Darlene. And my Dr. Gutiérrez: Now those are their real names or like, like, or is that like Henry? Mr. Molina: Gerardo Jaime. Dr. Gutiérrez: Oh, Gerardo Jaime. Mr. Molina: Dora, Doris Darlene is her name y (and) Gary, Gary John. That is his name. My brother, Gary, he is the youngest one and he is a forensic scientist for DPS in Austin. I am proud of that kid. He, you know, I see him often and he is married with a family tambien . Todos . (also. All.) They all have families. They all have kids except, except me. Este (Well) like I said, I was married for sixteen years and we couldn’t have any children, then I, I remarried a year ago and, and we, we never had any kids, any children. But all my nieces and nephews hablan espanol todos ... (all speak Spanish) and, and are very proud of their heritage. Extremely proud. Dr. Gutiérrez: Did you date in high school? Mr. Molina: I had one girl, one girlfriend. Dr. Gutiérrez: Who was that? Mr. Molina: Her name was Jeannie. Barbara Jean Tejada. T-E-J-A-D-A. Tejada. And a fine person. She, we dated in high school and in college and then she is now in California somewhere. I haven’t seen her in several years. Dr. Gutiérrez: How come you didn’t marry her? Mr. Molina: Because I was, well, maybe I was crazy, maybe I should have. She was a good, a good person. In fact, her father just died yesterday. I looked at the obituary and I, I, I wondered if she was going to come for the funeral. But, but she was a fine, a fine person. But I dated a lot in college. When I came to SAC, [San Antonio College] I had a good time. Dr. Gutiérrez: Now, tell me about the social life in the high school though in the town. Did, did you all mix together? The Anglos and the Polish? Mr. Molina: NO. No. Dr. Gutiérrez: There is a lot of Polish people in Karnes. Mr. Molina: Yes. No, that was taboo. We didn’t do that at all. Dr. Gutiérrez: How about in church? They are Catholic, aren’t they? Mr. Molina: Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Gutiérrez: Are you Catholic? Mr. Molina: I am Catholic. Yeah. They are Catholic. We didn’t... no, at that time, we sat on one side of the, of the aisle and they sat on the other side. Dr. Gutiérrez: Really? Mr. Molina: Yes. In fact, there are some stories, there are some stories about some people that, I remember Mr. Cortez, not Gregorio Cortez, I think, maybe it was Jesus Cortez. Clemente Cortez, I believe is his name. His son is Jesus. There is a story about him sitting on the wrong side. And they said then they came and asked him to move to the other side and this was in the Sixties. In the Sixties. Dr. Gutiérrez: Sitting in the Catholic Church? Mr. Molina: In the Catholic Church. Dr. Gutiérrez: And the priest enforced this or condoned it? Mr. Molina: I don’t even think he knew about it. Dr. Gutiérrez: Ahhh, he could see. Mr. Molina: Well, I mean, it was before the Mass started and, and I don’t think they ever, they ever even brought it up to the priest, you know. But, no, that happened. I think that first, that first Hispanic priest was a Cuban that came in, Father Vincent De la Rosa, and that was about 65 when he came in. When he came in, everything started changing and it, at that time of morning, he was first coming over here, everyone said, oh my God, we are getting a Mexican priest. And he was a Cuban priest. But the gringos were appalled that there was even a Latino priest, you know, in, in the diocese. But, and now of course, we have Archbishop Flores and we have Reverand Elizondo and all of them. But at that time, oh no. Oh no. And even now, we don’t have an Hispanic priest. We had one, I believe, since then. But no, it was, it was rampant. You think back, you know, one of the nicest guys, one of the nicest guys in school was a counselor named Mr. Blaudau, William Blaudau. B-L-A-U-D-A-U. And he took all of us in. He took Diedro Barreto, who is now a professor at Texas A & M in Corpus. I believe it is called Corpus Christi State University, I believe. Part of A & M. And Jessie Perez, who works at the bank in Karnes City and Pabo Canas, who is now a pharmacist in Houston. But he brought us in one at a time and he said, you know, he was just so nice to us all the time. But, he said, look, I want you to go to a restaurant school and he would tell me, I want you to go to a mechanic’s school and follow in your father’s footsteps. Or open up your dad’s business or, or he would tell, yeah, he told Paul, go study restaurant. Go study, go study to be a cook. I think you would be a fantastic cook. And I think Tito told him that I want to go to college. He says, oh no. You can’t do that. You know, there was very, he was very nice to us and he was there for years and years and years, but saying, you know, you belong here and you belong there, but college was out of the question. You know, you, you just can’t go to college. Dr. Gutiérrez: So, how did you end up going to college? Mr. Molina: Uh, Ted Butler. Ted Butler called me and he said, look, I really want you to go to Baylor Henry. You know, and Dr. Gutiérrez: Were you a ball player? Were you with the U? Mr. Molina: No, no. Dr. Gutiérrez: Why Baylor? Mr. Molina: Well, that is where he went. Baylor Baptist College. Dr. Gutiérrez: Let’s back up here. What, what was the connection? How did, how did he happen to take an interest in you and so on? Mr. Molina: He would just go to the gas station all the time and his, actually my great-grandfather and his father were very good friends. Ted Butler is a lot older than I. He is probably in his Seventies, seventy five right now, probably. And so the age difference was, my great-grandfather and his father and in fact, I remember when my great-grandfather passed away, he was the only gringo that came to the funeral. But he went there and he wasn’t even running for re-election. He just, the, the story of the Butler family is a fascinating story. They, the, the ancestors were supposedly a very mean people and then and they still had Butler Ranch, but as the, as the times went on the kids were very, very good people and, and, and intermixed with the Mexicanos and Latinos over there in Karnes County. And he was a good, he was a good. There was a story about him one time. A lady wanted to get up the stairs and she couldn’t get up and he went and carried her, he is a big strong man, carried her up the stairs. A Mexicano. And they called him, at that time, they called him a Nigger and Mexican lover, you know, because he, he campaigned for those, those Spanish votes. He did do a lot for the county because when he was there, none of the streets were paved and they did get paved. And he would come to the gas station all the time and his brother was a, Jerry, Jerry Butler, who is a state representative from down in Corpus, right? I believe that he has passed away since then. And he told my Dad, he says, I really want Henry to go and I forget, maybe the interest was there because my father was a leader in the community and he saw Henry B. carry and grab me in his arms and stuff and, and he says I would like for you to go to Baylor. Well, we didn’t have any money to go to Baylor. We didn’t have grants at that time and I didn’t have, certainly, any kind of a, a scholarship ability, you know. And so we, I just came to San Antonio and went to SAC and, and, and went there for two years. Dr. Gutiérrez: And where did you Mr. Molina: And partied a lot. Dr. Gutiérrez: Where did you live? Mr. Molina: I lived on Mulberry and St. Mary’s. Dr. Gutiérrez: By yourself or with other guys? Mr. Molina: By myself. Fifty dollars a month rent. Dr. Gutiérrez: Now, did you get Mr. Molina: I worked at Handy Andy. Dr. Gutiérrez: You, you didn’t live with your dad? Mr. Molina: No. No, he would go home on weekends pretty much and he, well yeah, we shared an apartment for awhile, for awhile and then, you know, I studied a lot and I was already eighteen and, and that Latino thing of when you are eighteen, you are on your own. And so, he lived across the street actually. There was a place called the Star Motel and we had little cabanas in the back and that is where he lived. And that was on Broadway and Mulberry. On Mulberry and St. Mary’s. And the gas station was right there on, on Broadway and Mulberry. Dr. Gutiérrez: What was your favorite subject back then? What did you want to be? Mr. Molina: Always speech. That is the only, I just wanted to be a, a public speaker, you know. I, I, I think because the teacher that I had in high school who took an interest in me in public speaking, I think she encouraged me the most. Other than that, I had no idea; I had no guidance. My father and mother, I knew they wanted me to do well, but I mean, their idea was to just get out of high school. That was it. Just get out of high school and start working, you know. We didn’t talk about college back then. My mom did. My father didn’t. And I mean, to get a four year degree would have been fantastic back then. But Dr. Gutiérrez: What was the name of your speech teacher? Mr. Molina: Yvonne Berlander. B-E-R-L-A-N-D-E-R. She is now in Gonzales, Texas and I, I, several years after I left, I called her up and I said, look I have got this audition for a TV station. I am going to audition as a weather man and she and she says, fantastic. Let me help you do this and do this and she took, she took a great interest, you know. The two people that took interest were her and a gentleman named Herb Karnau. K-A-R-N-A-U. Again, he was from Shiner, Texas and is now principal in Gonzales and he was my band director. And he made me the band manager and what not and he, he took me aside; in fact, my, when I was going to go to high school, our freshman year I was at the gas station working with my dad and washing a car on one July afternoon, beautiful, warm, summer day. And he came over and he said, "see that you didn’t sign up for band Henry." I said, "o sir. I think I am just going to, you know, not do anything. Just work and work here and, and go to school." And he says, "I really want you in my band." I said, "sir, I don’t think I am good enough to go to the band." He says, "Henry, I want a hundred of you in my band. I really want you to join the band." So, I changed the subject, my subjects and he encouraged me very much. He was a good, good man and he had a very unfortunate incident where three of his daughters got killed in one car wreck at one time. But, he, he has always taken interest. And my best friend, Jimmy Kowalik, who I went to school with in the first grade, he also came over and says, "Henry, we really want you in this band." So, it was the Karnes City High School Badger Band and when I was, when we were seniors was the first time in the history of Karnes City that we got Sweepstakes, which was a big thing back then. And, and so, he says, "we did it with you, Henry." He, he was very good. He was a very good person. Not a single bone in his body that was again saying anything about anybody at all. He was just a good man. And but when I went to SAC, when I went to SAC, I would, I would go to school from seven to eleven and my last, my last course ended at eleven o’clock in the morning and I would drive to work at Handy Andy on, on, on Austin Highway and I would start work at twelve and I would work from twelve to seven every day and on weekends. So, I was putting in forty hours a week and, and taking a full time load. Then a job opportunity came up and, and, with the San Antonio Transit System and a counselor at SAC called me in and he says, look, we have got this opportunity that I think you would really like. He says they are looking for, this was 1968; they are looking for transit supervisors, college, to help them run bus schedules and what not during HemisFair. So I went and applied. And there were about a hundred and fifty applications and they wanted twelve of us. And I got hired by the transit system and it was a good job. A good job during, during HemisFair and after HemisFair was over, we were all lined up to get our last paycheck and they said, "Henry, can you wait a little bit?" I got my check and I waited there and at the end of the whole thing, they said, "Henry, we would like for you to stay on with us." And I did. I stayed on for two years and they liked the way I interacted with the, with the bus drivers. These drivers had been there twenty and thirty years and here are your college kids trying to tell them what to do. I never told anybody, but I would ask them, "Would you please do that sir? You are running a little bit late," or "could you please hurry," or "would you, would you slow it down? You are a little bit hot." They call it hot. "You are running too fast." You slow down, so, because if you ran hot, you ran ahead of time, you would miss passengers, you know. So, I stayed there for a couple of years. Remember I graduated at seventeen, so right after I turned eighteen, and my boss was a, my boss was a retired Colonel and but I paid attention to my job and I thought I was going to stay there forever. It was a good job at that point. I think I was making $1.85 an hour and really enjoyed it and then I worked in the office, answering the phones, giving information. Then I worked in front of the Alamo with Gray Line Sightseeing Tours. Business was great. So, they said, "stay on with us." And I did and then I knew I was going to have to serve some military time. It was just, I just knew it was going to happen. And so, I went to my supervisor and he says, I says, I think I am going to go ahead and join the service and he says, well you know, you, as soon as you sign up, you are going to go to Viet Nam. Do you want to go? I says no. It was during the Viet Nam War and Chicanos were getting killed left and right. He says, "look, let me get you in the Reserves." He says, "I was, I am a retired Colonel and I like the Reserves, but they, it is hard to get in right now." In fact, I think it was frozen. But he picked up the phone and called somebody and got me in and he says, "but I want you to come back to work here after, after you get out of Basic Training." And I said, "sure." So, I went to Basic and it was at Ft. Polk. The call it Ft. Puke, Lousyanna. Ft. Polk, Louisiana. Went to Basic and, and I will never forget the day that I went to Basic. It was six o’clock in the morning and my father and mother came up; Mother came up from Karnes City; my little sister, my grandfather was there to see me off. There was a Trailways Bus Station right there on Broadway and Third and they saw me off. All of us were sort of crying and, and, and so we, I went to do my Basic and came back for AIT and my Mother said, "just do me a favor son. This is the only thing I am going to ask you. When you come back in a uniform, I don’t want you to come to the el baile, el Salon Benito Juarez ... (the dance, the dancehall Benito Juarez....) and, and make a, cause a scene, you know, getting drunk and cause a scene there and disgrace the uniform." That is all she asked of me. I said, "Mom, I promise you. I am not going to do that." And I probably say to this day, I, it hit me hard that it really affected me. To this day, I have never had a beer in my life. I have never had a beer or a cigarette or marijuana or any kind of drugs at all in my, illegal drugs in my whole life. And I am very proud of that. It was because of my mother. She Dr. Gutiérrez: You never, you never experimented with smoking or drinking? Mr. Molina: No. It was all around me. It was all around me in during the Sixties. Dr. Gutiérrez: How did you say, "no" to, to friends of yours? Mr. Molina: Ahhhh, just, "I will have a Coke. I don’t want that." I, I didn’t like it. I would say, "I don’t like that," you know. I remember when I was, my grandfather used to give me a drink of beer when I was a little kid, six, seven years old, and I was young, you know, you can’t stand it. So, I just said, "I don’t like it." So, I have never had, had a beer in my entire life. And or a cigarette. I just didn’t, you know, I just didn’t see any use in it. You know, what is it? It is just burned money, you know. So, that is all she asked of me and I did that and came back from Basic and I went back to the Transit System. They, they were waiting for me there and then someone said, you know, there is a better, better thing that you can do, you know. You can make more money and what not. And by the way, at that time, my supervisor who had asked me, that got me into the service had passed away, so and he was the only one I had told that I was going to come back to the Transit System, so I went to an employment company and went to three different interviews and they all hired me. One was an insurance and one was a, a grocery chain, I believe, and one was a, a finance. And I said, you know, I think I would like finance. I was impressed with the gentleman that interviewed me. His name was David Meyer. He was Mexicano and he was adopted and, and he, he hired me and I was worked in finance for like seven years. I was hired, the company was Service Finance and I was there for a year or so and then a company called General Finance Corporation, GFC, Friendly Bob Adams Service. A lady that worked there named Gloria Warner, she had married Larry Villarreal, but when she married of course, it was Warner. She called me and offered me a position and I went and applied and got it and every office that we went to from there, I went, I was transferred from there to an office in California. They had four hundred and fifty offices all over the country. The, the roughest office was in California in Inglewood. In fact, we called it Ingle Watts. It was a tough area. To Pueblo, Colorado and back to San Antonio and to the number one office in San Antonio. Well, the biggest office was in San Antonio. Everyone I went to became number one in the country, you know. Well, that was quite an accomplishment. I took my job to heart. We, we do. As Latinos, we are like these are the best workers there are. Now what they are doing, they take their job to heart. I don’t care what anybody says. And so we became the number one office in the country. And one day an opportunity came up where, where I was able to buy a finance company. And we bought it for twenty five thousand dollars. First met a Harvey, David Meyer had lost, wouldn’t work with me anymore, but I could call him up and he says, "there is this finance company. We ought to buy it together." I said, "OK, let’s buy it." And I thought he had the money and he thought I had the money. We went to the bank. We met the guy from, from, I think he was from Plains.... Plainview, Texas and met with him and he says, "well, I want twenty five thousand dollars." And we said, "OK. And so we will meet Monday morning at the bank." Went to the bank and , and we knew he was losing money. We knew he couldn’t collect his, his, his bad loans they had made, so we made a deal with him. I mean, he had to sell. And we didn’t have any money. We said, look, we will pay you a thousand dollars a week, OK, a thousand dollars a week and you know, with no finance charge. Well, he, he couldn’t lose. I mean, he had to close up or take a thousand dollars a week. The papers were just going to be there. He accepted it and we paid him a thousand dollars a week and both of us were taking home eight hundred dollars a month, OK. David took eight hundred and I took eight hundred and then when we would just go up, we didn’t, we weren’t making loans. In fact, somebody would come in for a loan, we’d hide. We can’t make a loan. But we would, we collected all this money, you know. We just went out and beat the bushes and collected all these accounts and we never defaulted and at the end, and or we would refinance them, you know. We were seventeen below and they were five to a hundred dollar loans and at the end of the, of the twenty five weeks, we paid him off, we sold the company for twenty five thousand dollars. We had paid him off. We sold it for twenty five thousand dollars and, and we had lived off of that, so it was a good, good business. My first business venture and I, I went to work for a company called Certified Laboratories out of Dallas. It was called a, a General, a National Chemshirts Corporation of the Leedy Brothers. Jewish, Jewish family and they trained me in sales and they trained me well. Rick Munsisheimer was my boss. And it was probably the best company to work for. It was a good company and made a lot of money. Well, I was only twenty, twenty six, twenty eight years old, twenty seven, twenty eight years old and, and I got married at that, at twenty eight after being with the company for a couple of months. And the company was so good that when I, I, I was the third guy in the history of the company that got the Director’s Award, which was twenty five thousand dollars in sales in the first ninety days of employment. It had never been done but twice before. So they, they took a lot, invested a lot in me and had a lot of faith in me and when I told them I was getting married they said, we would like to send you an extra thousand dollars. And back then, it was a lot of money, to go get married, go have a good honeymoon, and come back next week and go back to work. And it was a, it was a very good, very fine company. They took care of their employees. It was commission only. There was no salary. It was commission only so. I was making about thirty thousand dollars a year. One day I was watching TV with my wife and, and Maclovio Perez who was the weather man here at that time and he says that, "I am going to California," you know. Resigned at Channel 5. And my wife says, "you know, you have always criticized the weather, that it has been on all the time. Why don’t you go apply?" I said, "I think I will." So, I went over there and interviewed with a guy named Bob Rogers and he said, "sure, let me see your, your journalism background." Well, I didn’t have any journalism. "But let me see how much you know about weather." I said, "I don’t have any weather, either." And so he said, well, let’s see what you can do. He threw me on the set, on a mock set with Chris Marou and Dan Cook and I held my own. I just, I guess, just BSd my way through. And he says, "come here son." He says, "I am going to send you to Laredo for one year to get your mistakes out of the way. And then, just trained properly... And I got a friend by the name of Jim Logan, and he will train you. And then come back after a year." So, I took a big cut in pay. I was making about two hundred and fifty dollars a week, but I enjoyed my job in Laredo. I was a reporter during the day and did the weather at night. After eight months of being down there, my wife called me one day and says, "Henry, I can’t stand it. You got to come back over here or we are going to have to get divorced." So, I came back to San Antonio and went to work at Channel 41 and then from there I went to Channel 12. Dr. Gutiérrez: What, what were you doing on Channel 41? Mr. Molina: Same thing. I was doing sales and weather. En espanol .... (In Spanish...) Dr. Gutiérrez: En espanol .... Mr. Molina: En espanol ..... Dr. Gutiérrez: Y el prognostico del tiempo .... (And the weather forecast....) Mr. Molina: Si . (Yes). And what I would do is I would, I would write the weather and a guy from Mexico would correct it and then I would just read it. I was just reading the weather, you know. But that was a lot of fun and, and but if they wanted to ad-lib and then I couldn’t do too much, you know. I would do it, but pero todo mocho .. (but all cut-up). I left there for, for higher pay and, and the ABC affiliate in San Antonio, KSAT, Channel 12 and I did a weekend weather and sales there. And I enjoyed it, but I started getting these calls that they wanted help here for Grand Openings; they wanted help here for me to do PR and what not; and I said, "you know what? I think there is a business here that I can get into." And so I, I gave my two weeks notice and told them I was going to have a, to start a PR firm dealing with the, at that time it was 1980, 82-83. ‘83. And in fact, it was April 1, ‘83 when I started my business and they wanted, they were catering, more companies were catering to the Hispanic market, you know. And I said, "OK." So, when I, as soon as I put the word out, Lone Star Beer calls me and says, "we would like to hire you for one year and help you with minority, this minority company." And, and got me a contract for five thousand dollars a month. I said, "oh great." So, I went to work for them, then Seven-Up called and Seven-Up, you know, says, "we would like to hire you." And I had met them at a, I think it was a LULAC convention and made a presentation to them. And they said, "well, come up to..." very interesting, I will never forget this. They said, "come up to St. Louis and make a presentation for us." I said, "OK." So, I had this little contract from Lone Star and I saved my money and I went up to St. Louis and I, I took another person who was on my staff, you know, and made the appointment; went up there and showed up and, and they said, "yeah, we will hire you." So, they hired me for like, I think it was ten thousand dollars a month to do PR nationwide to the Hispanic market. After I was there for awhile, they told me, they said, "you know, we didn’t think you were going to get this contract because we have talked to other Hispanic agencies before, but none of them would ever come up to St. Louis to make a presentation." And I found out why. Because the money that it would take for the flight, for the hotel, for meals, and for a two day presentation, didn’t allow these people to go up there. We found the money and went and we got the contract and it was a very good relationship because Seven-Up was owned at that time by the Philip Morris Corporation. Got into Philip Morris, did some work for them, and we got them, we got them recognition. In fact, the Chairman of the Board of Philip Morris, we got him to make a speech to the, to the National Hispanic, The U. S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce and they said OK. So, they hired me, Philip Morris, not Seven-Up, they hired me to translate his speech into Spanish and as soon as he gave the speech, he wanted to send out to the media, Hispanic media nationwide and we did. So, we had some good contracts with them. When, when Philip Morris sold and Philip Morris owns Miller Beer and Seven-Up, Lone Star Beer, the contract workers they had said, when I started working with, with Philip Morris and Seven-Up, they didn’t like it because they know that, they knew they had owned Miller Beer. They said that is a kind of a conflict, even though I wasn’t doing the beer account. I was, they said, "no, we, we don’t, we don’t like that." So, we didn’t renew the contract after a year. But, but that was fine. I liked the Philip Morris company. It, it is a good company even though right now it is bringing controversy over cigarette smoking ban and all this. But after that happened, Seven-Up was, was sold to Dr. Pepper, out of Dallas. And I said oh that is great. That is great because I, you know, it is easier for us and it will be better because going to St. Louis once every or twice a month was, was costly. Even though they did reimburse you, it was still time consuming and what not. Well, we went to Dallas to talk to the new company and they said, "no, no, we would like to hire you full time. We don’t want, we don’t want to have a contract with, with anybody. We want you full time." They offered me a full time job and I had twelve people on staff and so I said, I said, "I can’t do that," you know. "I have my own company." And, so we, they didn’t renew the contract, but that was a good, that was a good account while, while it lasted. And you don’t see much involvement with, with Hispanics and Seven-Up now like you did back then. We formed a Seven-Up mariachi group and the whole bit. Mariachi Seven-Up, you know. But we did a lot of work for them. Dr. Gutiérrez: So, what happened to, to your business? Mr. Molina: My business went very, very well. The first, the first year in business, I think I made three hundred and seventy eight dollars and it got to the point where I was worried more about personnel than I was about worried about accounts. When you get to, when you get to a certain, to a certain size, you worry about, about, you have all these little problems, little fires to put out here and there, and, and watching people steal money from you and then, and things like this, and I wasn’t enjoying it. I didn’t enjoy it anymore. The last account that I had, the last good account, was Karnes County ironically. I get a call from the banker in Karnes City, the Roughman family who runs the county basically. He is a very wealthy man, young man. He, he is probably about, I am forty eight, he is probably about fifty two, fifty three years old. He says, "Henry, we need your help." Says, "we are trying to get a prison in Karnes County and we have tried twice and we can’t get it. We would like for you to help us in Austin, get some votes to get this prison." And I said, "Trip..." His name was Tripruck, and I said, "I really don’t care to do that. I said I would like to see us get a hospital or get something else, but not a prison," you know. We are going to be like Huntsville. He says, "I agree with you Henry, but there is no money for that and we need a prison and it is going to create eight hundred jobs, local jobs." And my mother called me and she said, "Henry, they have called me. Trip called me. And also asked for your help. You know, the county is dying. We need these jobs. Help us." And I said, "OK." So, I said, "Trip I will do it to help the county. I really don’t want any money. You know, I really don’t think it is going to take that much time. I will just do what I can. I have got some other accounts." He said, "no, no, we would like to pay you." And so I said, "well, I really don’t want the pay. Let’s see what, let’s see how, what we can do." Well, when the time came to make the presentations, we got the, at that time it was the biggest county in, the biggest jail in, prison in the state of Texas, and they sent me a check for two thousand dollars for the work I did and of course, I didn’t turn it down. I said, "OK, I can use two thousand dollars." But when I was down there for the ground breaking ceremony, someone said, "Henry, we need leadership here in Karnes County." This was ‘90, ‘92, ‘93, something like that. "We need leadership. We need leader, I mean, we have got this prison coming up and we are going to need help with liaison and what not. We don’t have any leadership at all. Why don’t you come down here and run for county judge?" And so I, I thought about it and I said, "well my parents or my dad was already retired, they are not getting any younger. Let’s, maybe I can do that." Saw some of the people, the way they were living. They sell a lot of alcohol in Karnes City, in Karnes County. People are depressed. There was nothing to do. OK? You know, I can better this situation. I wanted to make an impact on the world. I wanted to make an impact on the community. So, I did. I went down there and ran for, ran for county judge and you know, I lost the race, but we did do a lot of good. Trip did help me with my race; gave me a lot of advice; gave me a lot of help; and we had, we had, we had some Anglo support. Unfortunately it wasn’t enough. But we made a lot of friends down there and we did, we did do some, some good because now like I said, we had, we have two Commissioners we didn’t have before. At that time we didn’t have any Commissioners. And we didn’t have any Latino Commissioners and we didn’t have, we had a Constable and that was it. Now we have two Commissioners and so we, we created a little impact, but I wish that we had done a lot more. Dr. Gutiérrez: When were you born? Mr. Molina: 1948. July 15, 1948. Hobson, Texas in el rancho de mi abuelito . (My grandfather’s ranch.) It was a, six hundred acres and way back then he was a very smart man. Dr. Gutiérrez: Is that land still in the family? Mr. Molina: No. No, it went, when he died, my great grandfather died and there were, let me see, one, two, four uncles and about five aunts and I was only like, I was in high school, I believe I was still in high school when he passed away and I said, "please don’t sell that. Please don’t sell that; And they did. They thought, you know, they could do more and we lost that. I have since tried to buy that back. Some dentist in Corpus bought the ranch. I have tried to buy it back. And I called him up and he wouldn’t even talk to me. He, he didn’t want to sell that. It is a great piece of property. But, my grandfather’s house is still in Karnes City. In fact, when my grandfather and my grandmother passed away, they, they, they willed that house to me, so I have that house. My grandparent’s house. I am the oldest grandchild and so they gave me their house. Dr. Gutiérrez: How was it that you graduated at seventeen? You, you, did you accelerate? Mr. Molina: July. No, my birthday was in July. July I was seventeen and I wouldn’t, I started at six years old, didn’t turn eighteen until July and the school was over in May. You know. Dr. Gutiérrez: Why did you go to SAC? Why didn’t you go to, we know you didn’t go to Baylor for money, but you could have gone to Austin, UT Austin, you could have gone to Kingsville, A & I or, why SAC? Because your dad was here? Mr. Molina: That was, yeah, there was never any, any, any discussion about that. I just came to San Antonio. I had been coming to San Antonio to work, you know, with my dad on weekends and what not and so, just, just, SAC was just there. My, my dad’s first gas station in San Antonio was on Flores and, Flores and Ashby which is right by SAC. And that was my first encounter with SAC. Dr. Gutiérrez: Did you go on beyond the two years? Mr. Molina: No. What I did is I went back. I kept going back. And one of the greatest honors I ever received, I, I kept going back to SAC and getting, didn’t know how to pursue a degree. There was, one of the greatest honors I received was recently where just last year I went and I took nine, nine hours while I was working, while I was working and, and in Government and History, which I had never had and got the, the President’s Honors List, which was a 4.0. And it may not mean much to some, but to me it meant a lot because it was, it was tough being forty seven years old and going to school and working full time and I was, I was just proving that I could do it. My, both my wives had degrees. And my wife now has a Master’s Degree and nobody has ever, you know, it wasn’t a big thing to me. I would rather, you know, my thing was just trying to make some money and support my family, but it, in the background, my friends all had degrees and it has bothered me. So education is extremely important. It has always bothered me that I didn’t have a degree and so I said I am going to go back and get one and I will probably still do, will if I, if I have the time. Dr. Gutiérrez: How long did you stay in the reserves? The eight years or six years? Mr. Molina: Six years. Dr. Gutiérrez: Six years. Mr. Molina: Six years. Dr. Gutiérrez: Didn’t re-up? Mr. Molina: No. Dr. Gutiérrez: What rank did you gain? Mr. Molina: No, I wish I would have. E4. Just E4. That is all we did. Dr. Gutiérrez: What was your MOS? Mr. Molina: 71H20. I was a clerk typist. Clerk typist and with that, if I had gone to Nam, I still wouldn’t have gone to, to the Infantry, but still..... But I did a lot of things in the service. I really enjoyed that. I, I was a cook. I was a driver for the Major. I was a, a clerk typist, and all that. It wasn’t a bad experience. A lot of people hated it, but I, I, it wasn’t that bad. Dr. Gutiérrez: All right. Well, let’s go back and pick up your, you are doing gang buster work with your public company. Who, what was the name of it? Mr. Molina: It was just Henry Molina Incorporated. Dr. Gutiérrez: OK. Mr. Molina: And after I, after the, we got the prison and I went down for judge and lost the race, you know, I was extremely depressed. It was very painful to lose that race because we had a lot of people that worked very hard on that campaign. A lot of people. And so I, I took off for a year. I went to Mexico. I went to Mexico for a couple of months and then I went to, to Canada. My, my father, I took my wife and my father to Seattle, Washington to see my sister. In fact, we are talking about, about military and about how loyal we are as, as Latinos to our government. We were going to Seattle, my sister was with me and, and my father and her, my sister’s kids, my nephews and we see this ship, this gigantic ship. And I say, her husband is in the Navy and it is the U. S. S. Missouri and my father says, "oh, that is the U. S. S. Missouri. He says I was on that to Japan. I went, I went to Japan on that boat." I said, "well Daddy, let’s stop and take a picture." " Nombre, ya me canse ... (Noway, I’m tired...) You know, I saw so much water I don’t even care." "Daddy, let’s." He says, "yeah, that is the one that I was on." So, we took a picture of it. I later found out that the U. S. S. Missouri is where the treaty was signed when Japanese surrendered, you know. And it was about the fifty year in effect. So, I took the picture and I sent it to the newspaper in Karnes City and it came out in the paper and just yesterday we were talking about the U. S. S. Missouri, some people in Austin. And I said, they were talking about what a great ship, what a battleship it was and they saw it in Hawaii and I said well, guess what folks? You know, my father was on that ship. A little bit of pride there. He traveled to Japan on the U. S. S. Missouri and it was, anyway, every one of my, every one of my, my family members are, my uncles, my father, and myself were all in the military. We all served our, served our government, our country. Anyway, so after that, after I came back from Canada and what not, I just started consulting, worked on some, on some, you know, good accounts. Dr. Gutiérrez: Did you sell the business or did you give it to the employees or did you shut it down? Mr. Molina: No, no. I just cut back on my accounts. One of them, one of my biggest accounts, they still kept me on a retainer, on a retainer and at that, after that I just, no, I just closed up. I said, "thank you all very much." And found them all jobs and they all went to work somewhere else. And I didn’t make a single enemy of me. I think maybe just one kid that was kind of unhappy because he left, but the rest of them were all understanding. And so just started consulting and just my, myself and my secretary who was with me from the very beginning, Terry Valdez. She is a good, a very good person. And got a call one day last November, November of ‘90, ‘96 from the Governor’s office asking me if I would, some of the, one of the customers I had was Frank, his name was Frank Madla. He was doing his P. R. in West Texas. But the Governor’s office called and said, "we would like for you to apply for the Board of Pardons and Paroles." And I did. I went and applied. I didn’t know anything about the board of Pardons and Paroles, but I talked to some attorneys and they said it was a good position. And it was one of the positions that was a paid position. I think it paid sixty three thousand dollars a year, so I went and applied for that, for that post and interviewed and at that time, one of the contracts that I had was a boxing contract as boxing instructor under the boxing commissioner and, and enjoyed that because I would, well I would, I’d get mileage plus ten dollars an hour plus a good seat for the fights and it was just one little contract. Well, the director of that organization, the Department of Licensing and Regulations, a man named Tommy Smith, saw my work and he said, "you know Henry, my assistant...." he called me one day. He said, "my assistant just resigned. And I am going to put out a posting for this position. I would like for you to apply for it." And I talked to my wife and I said, "look, I have got this opportunity to go with the Governor’s office on the Board of Pardons and Paroles for a six year term or I have this career position which pays less. It pays fifty five thousand dollars a year. Fifty five, six compared to Sixty two five. But it is a career position. I am going to have to leave when the Governor leaves and, and it is a career thing. I would like to apply for it." And I applied and I got that position. And that is my current position. I am Deputy Executive Director of the Texas Department of Licensing and Regulations. We have thirteen statutes under us. We regulate laws on boiler inspectors and elevator inspectors and architectural barriers and boxing is one of the career counselors. And it, it has been a very good position. I, I started February the 3rd, so I have only been there for a couple of months, but I, I see, I see the inner workings of, of government. I am at the capitol every day during the session trying to inform the legislators about some of the bills that are going to effect us. We can’t lobby for a bill. We just inform them what is, how it will affect us or if it we could do the work or not. And that is my current position. I am very pleased with it. Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, that is interesting that the Governor would call you. Why do you think he did that and how did you go about maneuvering through, to get the job? Mr. Molina: This one here. Well, I applied and like I said, the director had seen my work and interviewed, interviewed and then I got hired, but and then I had to withdraw my nomination from the Board of Pardons and Paroles. How they got my name, I don’t know. I, I, I, would assume that Senator Madla had a lot to do with it. Also, Senator Lucio. Senator Lucio, although he is a Democrat, he delivered the Secretary of State to the Governor, who is Tony Garza and Senator Madla, who is a conservative Democrat, and he was on the Chairman, he was the Chairman of Nominations for the committee. So, I am sure that the Governor knew that and knew that I was working for Senator Madla and maybe that is why they called me. Yeah. In this world nowadays, it is not who you know, it is who knows you. Or who knows what you are doing. But I really enjoy my position now with, with, with Licensing and Regulations. Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, tell me when did you marry? What year? Mr. Molina: I married the first time in 1978 and I divorced in 1991. I was married sixteen years. And Dr. Gutiérrez: You are married now to whom? Mr. Molina: My wife now is named Lydia. Lydia Monzon Molina. And, and a friend that I have known for thirty years, she had never married and we married in ‘95, December 23, ‘95. You were invited to the wedding. And, and it has been a great... this marriage is a lot different from the first one. I am very, very happy. I am extremely, extremely happy with my wife. It is, she is, she teaches four year-olds. Teaches four year-olds and with a Master’s Degree and still teaching four year-olds. But she loves her job and she will not change it for anything. I have offered to buy her a little nursery or something, but she says no. I want to keep teaching. And she is just... Dr. Gutiérrez: Why have you all not considered adoption if you want children? Mr. Molina: I think my age now. I am forty eight years old, she is fifty five although she looks younger than I. I have got so many nieces and nephews and she does too. She has four of them that we just spoil them all the time and so I think that if I was to adopt a baby now, I think it, I think I would be too old and wouldn’t serve the purpose that we, as a parent. You know. We love kids, but so she has her hands full every single day. Dr. Gutiérrez: All right, well let’s go back to high school or whatever period that you became politically aware of how the world works and aware of politics and aware of political parties. You mentioned that your father had an influence and that he was a political leader. Can you talk about some of that and when you first had your, your eyes opened. Mr. Molina: I, I figure it was at Jack Kennedy campaign in the Sixties. That, that was the first one and then, very active in that. And then, I didn’t pay much attention to that. I remember being in Karnes City, I remember salesmen used to come by there all the time to sell my father parts, and what not and I used to, I remember hearing about Crystal City and about a gentleman by the name of Jose Gutierrez in Crystal City. Now this was ‘62, ‘63, ‘64. OK? And at that time, the influence was ohhh, look at this guy in Crystal City doing this. I mean they were shocked; they were awed; they were, ohhh, the Raza Unida Party was being born, ohh what not; it was just a disgrace, you know. Figure in Karnes County and people passing through, but I kept on reading. I was very intrigued by it and a gentleman named Jose Gutierrez, very intrigued. All the time I just kept waiting around, reading about him and inside I just felt very proud even though they were saying to me, this isn’t right, this isn’t right. How can you do this? And I would never forget that and Jose, I got to tell you, I have been reading about you in the Express News. The Express News in San Antonio, it is a different edition in San Antonio than it is in South Texas. There is a South Texas edition. So, we would get stuff that was going on in Crystal City, which we might not, might not have gotten it here. But I have always been an avid reader. And, and so I kept reading about it and the first time I actually met you was when you were going to run for the Senate and I saw you in front of the Alamo at a press conference and I said I really would like to meet him. I really would like to meet Jose Gutierrez. So, I called you. I called you and I said please come to my house and spend a week at my house during Easter and that was the first time I met you. What year was that? Dr. Gutiérrez: In ‘93, no? Mr. Molina: ‘93, I believe, when you ran for the Senate. Dr. Gutiérrez: I believe so. Mr. Molina: But I had wanted to meet you all of my life. All my life and there was just a great moment when for the first time I actually saw you and to have you in my house at that time was, was a very proud moment for me. I have got to tell you that. Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, thank you, but let’s go back to John Kennedy. Mr. Molina: Kennedy and then. Dr. Gutiérrez: What did you do for John Kennedy? Mr. Molina: Because my father had a business, he would not allow bumper stickers on his car or my mother’s car. He said, "oh no. We can’t do that because they won’t, you know, the people that are, that don’t like Kennedy will not come to the gas station. OK?" That’s how he felt like that. But I had a little motor scooter. I had a scooter and I had Kennedy stickers all over my motor scooter. It was Kennedy and Ted Butler stickers all over my motor scooter. So, I rode around in my little motor scooter that and that there was at those. And then when I came to San Antonio is when I really wanted to get involved more in politics and I think the race that I remember the most, that I really worked on, well, there were two of them. I remember when Henry Cisneros won his first mayor race, which was already 80 I believe, I worked the campaign at the polls seven to seven. And I always worked polls for somebody, but never that long, but that time I worked from seven to seven and I worked in an area close to Windcrest, where we knew he was going to lose that, that area. But, he didn’t lose that area, that one, that one box that I worked in. It was a tough box, but he lost by a very small margin, so when I called in my figures and I talked to his brother George Cisneros, I said, "George, here are the results." I can’t remember the person that ran against Henry right now. I said he has got so many votes and Henry lost, you know, by this many votes. And George says, "Henry, because of this, we just won the election." I said, "what do you mean?" He says, "if we just lost by that little of votes there; we know that we are going to win big on the West side and the South side." And sure enough, he won it. And I was very proud because I, I felt I made an impact working that poll from seven to seven. And that is when I realized the importance of working and then being a poll worker and a poll watcher. Then when Albert Bustamante first won, I remember that, well you know, even before that, I would say when Albert Bustamante first won, I met him at South Park Mall. He came in from a, you know, from a helicopter from Del Rio and the election and he won and he became Congressman. But in 1978, when I became weatherman in Laredo, I went to Laredo and Laredo is a great political town. If you want to learn politics, go to Laredo because Laredo could care less what is going on in Washington or in Austin or the Middle East. They cared, they care about Laredo. And it was a time where Mayor Tatangelo had taken over and Pepe Martin was in jail on weekends only. He would go in on Friday afternoon and come out on Sunday and so it was a turbulent, hot time in Laredo. And we talked about the streets not being paved or rough streets in downtown Laredo. But, Laredo is a great town and also at that time, Judy Zaffirini was turned down for the college presidency because she was a woman. And they made no bones about it. She was a woman. She can’t be president. And she sued and they settled and I was very, a very fair reporter of Judy and she has never forgotten that. In fact, she has given me letters of reference, you know, and Judy is a tough, tough, powerful individual. I, I would love to see her run for Governor some day. She could influence a lot of people and she, she is a great, great role model for, for Latinos. Anyway, so I did my job as a reporter and what not and one day I get a call from Pepe Martin, whom I had never met, but I always wanted to meet because I had always read about him also, along with Jose Gutierrez and Albert Pena and Albert Bustamante and all these people. Mayor Martin, Pepe Martin called me. He says, "Henry, I need to talk with you. Would you please bring your camera and, and I need to talk with you about a couple of things?" And I said, "sure." I hung up the phone. I told my news director. He says, "what?" Because at that time, Pepe Martin, who was represented by Ray Barrera, had never talked to the media since, since his conviction he never wanted to talk to the media again. But he asked me to come over. And I was the first one he did an interview with. I was very honored to have met the gentleman. He was very charismatic and I, I liked Pepe Martin. Well, when I left, when I left Laredo in August of ‘78, the, my company, the KGNS Television had a party for me. And at that party was Pepe Martin and Mayor Tatangelo, the first time they had seen each other, both went to my party, my despedida , (farewell) and Judy Zaffirini and Celita Borchers who was the District Attorney’s wife at that time, Charlie Borchers. And a writer named Rosa Spear wrote the article and I still have the article about everybody that was at that Party. But, I learned a lot about politics and behind the scenes politics going on at that time in Laredo. And also I never, I learned not to be afraid of things because I remember one judge one time, we wrote about him or reported on him and he didn’t like it and he called us and blasted us in front of the courthouse there. But, and that judge and that judge, I will never forget his name. I am not going to mention it here but he blasted me personally for doing a report. And now, this is 1978, and just at one time after that I had an opening for a position and his daughter came and applied for that position. And I was, I was very, very impressive young lady, and I was speaking with her. I found out who her father was and she could have gotten that job but because of her father, she didn’t get it; so it was like payback time and it felt good. Those things do happen in politics, right? But, but on the contrary, some other people that had helped me because I had known their family for a long time. They were good people. And I said no. This was a personal vendetta that I, but anyway, that is the, the behind the scenes stuff that I did in Laredo. Just, you know, being as, being a reporter. Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, all the people that you described so far have been Democrats. So, when did you consciously look to the Republican Party and, and why did you do that other than the, the personal stand on abortion? Mr. Molina: Two items. One.... Dr. Gutiérrez: What happened? Mr. Molina: ...was abortion. One of them when, when my ex-wife had a, had a child when we, when I married her he was five years old and he was in high school, he was in high school and he was doing a report on both parties. So we took him to the Democrat Party and, and asked for information on the Party and they didn’t have anything. So, we took, we went to the Republican Party, and my wife, by the way, was a, a, a distant niece I think you would call her, niece to Kika De La Garza. Her name was Becky Barron. Her, Kika’s brother is Robert De La Garza, and he married her aunt, so he was in the family. So she was a big Democrat. And when we went to the Republican Party to ask for the same material that we had asked for from the Democratic Party, they gave us tons of material and they took us into their office and they said let me show you this and let me show you that. And Becky and I came home and said Henry, you wouldn’t believe the difference in the organizations of the two parties and the materials they have and, and how they helped Robbie with his report and what not. And so that kind of woke us up a little bit and then when I went into business, I called every politician that I knew and I said I am opening up the business and I don’t want any kind of a hand out, but I would like to do some work for you. The only person that returned my call that wanted to do, that wanted to help me with a contract, the Democrat was Bustamante who wrote letters on my behalf saying he knew me and tried to help me get contracts and what not, but a gentleman named Jim Richardson, who was the Director of the Minority Business Development Agency from the Department of Commerce said, "I have got a contract for you. Let’s see if you can do this work." And I got the work. He was a big Republican. And the other one was Ray Lopez. Ray Lopez was the Regional Administrator of the Department of Small Business Administration in Dallas and he says, "Henry, we can do this conference and I would like for you to bid on it." And I got the contract and then Eddie Herrera, Eddie Herrera was Deputy Administrator for the SBA and he says, "Henry, here is how we feel about business and minority business and we can help you and I got contracts there." So, the only people that helped in business were Republicans. The only ones. And so that really opened my eyes. That was the Ford years. Ford and Reagan years. And so we got a lot of contracts. So I got, from them I got a contract with the Department of Commerce, Department of Immigration. Immigration was, they had the amnesty program where they wanted people who had been here for a lot of years to apply and we got a contract with them. And then we got a contract with the SBA and so all these contracts and through those people I met business. Like I met the people at Seven-Up. I was able to go to the national conference, the La Raza Conference [National Council of La Raza] and what not and they meant business and I, I was doing business. And that’s, that’s the, one of the other reasons that influenced me about, about working with the Republican Party. Now, I am going to tell you something. When I first opened the business, I called Democrats and Republicans. I had done some work for Henry Cisneros on a volunteer basis, very little contract, and when he, he knew that I was opening my business, he says well, why don’t you apply with the city? I said no, I don’t want to work for the government. I really want to work in, in private business. He says well, let me see if I can get you a contract. When I called him on that contract, I never got a call back, you know. To this day, I have never got a call back on that contract. So, that is the reason. It was purely, you know, economics. The economic thing and the abortion thing, which is very important. Both of those. Dr. Gutiérrez: It is sort of ironic, no, because the, the perimeters you described being a, sound like the minority contracting programs and set asides which were all, well, I suppose Nixon did some of those. Mr. Molina: Nixon did those. Dr. Gutiérrez: But, I was going to say that I thought a good number of them were Democratic initiatives. Mr. Molina: I believe that the SBA was started by, I think during the, the Eisenhower years and then the set asides were about during the Nixon years. They were both Republican presidents. Now the, the contract that we had with the, with the SBA, the big contract I had with them was when the peso devaluation happened, they wanted people that were doing business with Mexico who wanted to help them. It was during the Reagan years. So, what they did, they said there are contracts with the government that you can do. So, it is called the Small Business Initiatives contract and it was all along the border. It was from, from Brownsville all the way to, to, to Las Cruces, New Mexico, so we had conferences in every city all the way along the border, you know to tell people here, here is what is available within the government. Dr. Gutiérrez: Were you involved in promoting the NAFTA Treaty? Mr. Molina: No. No. I really, I wish I would have gotten involved, more involved, but I wasn’t involved in that. Dr. Gutiérrez: What community organizations have you ever belonged to? Mr. Molina: The, the San Antonio Mexican Chamber of Commerce is our oldest Hispanic chamber in the United States. It was called the Camara Nacional de Comerico de la Cuidad de San Antonio . (National Chamber of Commerce of the City of San Antonio) OK? San Antonio Mexican-American Chamber of Commerce and it is now like, probably sixty or seventy years old. I was there and when I was working for Channel 41, the Spanish station here, and Emilio Nicolas took me aside and he says, "I would like for you to be our representative on the Mexican Chamber of Commerce." So, I went to a board meeting. And at that board meeting, there were four people there and they were electing officers and I went back to the, to the, his office the next day and I said, "Mr. Nicolas, I don’t want to belong to that Chamber of Commerce. I said they were electing officers and they had four people there." He said, "well, then go back and build it up." So, I went back and built it up and became president until 1983 and it was the San Antonio Mexican Chamber of Commerce and we, now it has got a budget of over a million dollars a year. And I was very fortunate to have been a president in ‘83 when we had the national convention. It was the first local chamber that won the, the National Chamber of the Year award for the whole country under my leadership. Also at that time, they had a small room about the size of, of this patio in the basement of the Greater San Antonio Chamber of Commerce. I got them out of that room and now they have their own, their own facilities. I was very proud of that fact, that we did that. They are on their own. It was tough to get people that had been there in the Chamber for years and years to move from there because they were under that leadership. But we got out. What a beautiful day, you know, when I can sit up here and hear the birds sing with them. But, but that chamber, after I left, changed the name to the San Antonio Hispanic Chamber of Commerce and the people that had been there for a long time, myself, Maria Torralva, Dora Salinas, Ruben Mungia, Henry Guerra all fought that name change, but today’s youth, they had the vote and they changed it. And now it is now called the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce of San Antonio, which is, is a good organization, but it is not what it was meant to be. And my thing was it was the Mexican Chamber of Commerce because it was founded by the, by the General Consul from Mexico, you know. Dr. Gutiérrez: What are your feelings on, on our ethnic identity label? On this word Hispanic or Latino or Mexican or Chicano? Mr. Molina: You know, to me it really doesn’t matter as long as you use them. Not a lot of people want, don’t like the word Chicano. I don’t care. They don’t like....Latino. I think it is very appropriate. To me it really doesn’t matter as long as you identify yourself with one of the ethnic groups that, that knows that you are Hispanic or Latino, you know. I could care less. It really doesn’t matter. Even if you say Mexican-American, you know, it doesn’t, it doesn’t.... I don’t see that at all. You know, they know what we are. You know, we are not going to hide it. What really bothers me is people that, that deny it or that deny that they are Hispanic; that they don’t speak the language; that bothers me very much. Especially not speaking the language because we have the most fantastic.... We are, we are..... And I got this from Henry Cisneros, from the best of both worlds, we got the most fascinating culture behind us. The Mexican culture. And we live in the greatest country in the world, so we are, we should be very proud to be both, part both Mexican and American and so, whether you call me a Chicano or a Mexicano, you know, those things don’t bother me. You know. The illegal alien thing bothers me because, you know, they just.... We are not illegal. We were here before anybody else and that, that bothers me. Dr. Gutiérrez: So the Chamber is the only organization you belong to? Mr. Molina: Oh no, no, no, no. I was on the Board of the Fiesta Commission. I was on the Board of.... I was on the LULAC, one of the LULAC boards here in town; I was a member of the, just, just several of them. I can’t even think of a lot of them. I was in Target 90. When Henry Cisneros first started Target 90, he went to the community leaders and picked the original Target 90 board and I was on that original Target 90 board. It was his goals for San Antonio for the year 2000. So, I was on that. You know, there have been a lot of them. But the Chamber has been very dear and I became vice president for TAMACC. It was the Texas Association of Mexican-American Chambers of Commerce. It was back in 1983, ‘84. So, a long time ago. Dr. Gutiérrez: What was your assessment of Henry Cisneros? Mr. Molina: I, Henry, if you have ever heard Henry speak, I don’t think, you know, take Bob Kennedy and take Martin Luther King and, and take Mario Cuomo. As a speaker, he is the most exciting speaker. I would rather sit and listen to a speech that he gives and I, I have never seen him give a speech without getting a standing ovation. A, a, a dynamic speaker. Very conservative in a lot of the views and even his, his, his, his uncle, Ruben, [Mungia] extremely conservative, but he has got the Democrat label because his father and his grandfather were Democrats and he is going to keep it all the time. I, I really wish him the best, the best of luck. I think he is a tremendous talent. I am sorry he had the incident that he had and you know what? What really bothers me is that the mayor after him, it was Nelson Wolfe, had the same problem that he had, but the mayor, once Wolfe left his wife and kids and married the other woman. Henry didn’t do that. But Henry got the bad press and Nelson Wolfe didn’t. I am sad that here in San Antonio there is a, a, not sad for Nelson, there is a baseball park named after him, but there is nothing at all named after Henry Cisneros and he did a lot for the city. Did a lot for the city and I hope that someday the Alamo Dome or something is changed to the name of Henry. Henry’s name on it. A, a great man. Dr. Gutiérrez: What is your assessment of Henry Gonzales? Mr. Molina: Well, I, I have got a lot of respect for him and for his endurance and, and, and stamina even now, but I think he should retire. He, he became, he ran for governor when Chicanos, Latinos didn’t even run for office and he was running for governor. And, but I think he is, you know, we always hate to say it because one of the things when I was president of the Chamber, the ex-president, he came and said... showed me what they did and how they ran it and I listened to them and then did it my way anyway. But I said I would never do that. After my term was up, I left it alone and gave it to someone else. And I think that should happen with Henry. At the time, he served a great purpose, but nowadays I think that he, he, we really need somebody younger in there to carry on his, you know, his position. Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, just part of this interview, we, we made a quick stop at a campaign headquarters of a young man who is trying to be the first former Raza Unida member to reach Congress, Ciro Rodrigues. Who, in your mind, are some of the more effective leaders that we have in our community, local, state, or national? Mr. Molina: Well, on a national level, there is a gentleman named Bill Richardson from New Mexico who was a congressman and now he is an Ambassador to the U. S. I really wish they would pay more attention to domestic affairs than to international affairs, but he is the U. S. Ambassador and I have got a lot of respect for Bill Richardson as Mexicano-Latino that is from New Mexico on the national level. Statewide level, statewide level, I really don’t see the leadership there that we need. We need some state leadership. I don’t, I really can’t think of, of a state elected official right now. Latino. We have Dan Morales who I think has disappointed a lot of people and, and of course, of course Tony Garza who is just trying to make an impact, trying to get people to vote. That is his position. It is appointed state secretary appointed state position, but if we can just get the numbers out to vote. Remember there is, there is enough, there is enough Latinos in five states where we could elect our own presidents if we wanted to. And that is Texas, California, Illinois, Florida, and New York. The Latinos would, if they would vote the same, we could have our own president. Hector Barreto, whom I have got a lot of respect for, told me one day, he says that if these people who voted, who pick cotton a lot of years, you know, voted together, they could pick the next president. And it has never happened. And I wish that we would have rallied around people like Henry. Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, there are.... Mr. Molina: ...win statewide. Dr. Gutiérrez: ...there are some reasons for that, no? Florida is basically Cuban American and they are basically Republican, no? Mr. Molina: Right. Dr. Gutiérrez: So they can’t vote with, with Texans, who are mostly Democrats. So there are... Mr. Molina: See, it goes back to communications. Do we, do we discuss.... And I feel that we have to have people in both parties because if, if you have people in both parties in power, in leadership positions, then you wouldn’t have a Proposition 187. If you nip it at the bud, you say look, no, we can’t do this to the Hispanic community. No, we can’t do that and have people in, in, in power there, we have got enough of us. We are just not using our numbers. Maybe we wouldn’t have these things. Or if we had them in state government, we wouldn’t have the affirmative action turnover, you know, anti-affirmative action plan, but we don’t have that. Locally, I am really hoping that Maria Torralva wins the race. [San Antonio Mayor] She is a good person. She really is a good person. Again, she came from a small town, from Karnes County. Lack of money. You know, if we don’t, if we don't work hard and save our money, we are never going to do anything and also use our, our influence and not be afraid to stand up with our people. We have got to stand up for our people. Regardless of Party, you know, like this, I wish Roy Barrera would have won, you know. He ran for Attorney General, but there again, you got to get good people that are going to be your people through thick and thin. You know, last week I ran into this gentleman in Austin and I was very impressed with him. He is an attorney. Very impressed and we had lunch and then he said, "I need to talk to you some more. Can we had dinner?" And we had dinner the next evening and he said, "I, I have got to tell you who I am." He says, "I have had a fantastic law practice and my son, one of them was president of the, the high school where he went to and my other son was president of, of his class. My daughter is an instructor at Brandeis University. My family has done very, very well. But, I have got a problem right now." He says, "I was involved in a scandal because I wouldn’t turn over some records and I wouldn’t give up a client and what not. It was a mortgage thing and I was indicted and convicted and I am facing thirty months in prison." He says, "I just want to let you know about that. I am facing that. My case is on appeal on the Fifth Circuit, but, but I just wanted you to know, you know, if you don’t want to associate with me anymore, I understand; but I am just telling you who I am." And I said, "let me tell you something." I said, "I wouldn’t be a very good friend if I was just there on your successes and not on your failures." I said, "even if you lose that appeal and go to prison, I want you to call me on weekends to see how you are doing and I want, I would like to be on your list so I can go visit you when you are in prison." I get calls once, it used to be every weekend, but now it’s less. I get a call almost every weekend, every other weekend from Albert Bustamante, who is, is in prison right now and I am proud to accept his collect calls because he is my friend. And he was my friend when he was at the top and he is my friend at the bottom. So, that is the way I see it. Dr. Gutiérrez: How is he doing? Mr. Molina: He is doing fine. He looks good. He is, he is working out very much. He is walking every day. He is playing softball. Has a great attitude. He is a political prisoner. He has got sixteen more months to go and he is going to do them. And I am going to be there when he gets out of prison. Dr. Gutiérrez: Why do you say that he is a political prisoner? Mr. Molina: Because I was there at the trial. I was at the trial when he was convicted, when he was convicted and some of the things they used, the government lied and it was a Republican government at that point. Judge Prado could have overturned a lot of things. He didn’t help him. Jackie Bennet, who was extremely annoying, is now the second chair to Kenneth Starr, trying to indict our president, convict our president. But, one of the examples was Albert’s wife, Rebecca Bustamante, used to be a nun. And she was in the convent for a lot of years and then she left the convent. After she left the convent, a year later, she met Albert. A couple of years later they got married. So, when they talked about her being a nun, a nun, the defense brought it up and said this was going from worse to bad. I mean, he was just a good person because she was in bed along with him and she was never convicted of anything. So, the prosecutor gets up, the government get up and says, "oh yeah, she was a nun, but she was released from the convent." Just the way they used that term. Well, she was released of her own accord. But, but they said, "she was released," making it sound like she was kicked out of the convent. Things like that they did. There were a lot of issues like that. Dr. Gutiérrez: But there was a jury involved. Mr. Molina: There was a jury involved, but the jury was lied to. The jury was lied to and I saw the, the wheels of justice turn the wrong way. Dr. Gutiérrez: Why didn’t the defense expose these lies? Mr. Molina: They, they tried to and then, and again, a lot of the objections were overturned by the, by the, by the, by the judge, and when it got to the Fifth, Fourth Court of Appeals, it wasn’t even heard. The case was never presented to the Fourth Court. Why? And that is why I say he was a political prisoner. The media, the media was against Albert because his opponent, his opponent’s wife was the anchor woman at the top TV station here where Henry Bonilla works now. Her name is Deborah Ann Bonilla. You know? Dr. Gutiérrez: What are those things...? Mr. Molina: Those things. And I saw them. I said then and I told my wife, I am in fear. You have got to be very, very careful of everything when you work for the government. Extremely careful. But I have had that fear since going to work for state government. I was told yesterday I couldn’t call women "ladies". They had to be called "women". You know, I can’t even call somebody a "lady". Someone actually told me that. Can you believe that? I ask them if they were married with a family. I can’t do that because that is sexist, they tell me. So, those things are around. This is a new world order that I am really disappointed. I don’t like it at all. Dr. Gutiérrez: I take it you don’t. Assessment of Henry Bonilla. He has had two, three Democratic challengers, all formidable, and they can’t, they can’t make a dent on him now. He seems to be a very effective political operator. Mr. Molina: Sure. Dr. Gutiérrez: Why? Mr. Molina: But ranking privilege is very important. He is, he has got ranking privileges. He sends out a lot of mailings. Incumbency is a very hard to beat. There is still some issues with Henry that, you know, I hope come out later on. There was an issue where he had a person, not, not his, not Latina, but a person from France or somewhere else that was his maid without papers. It has never come out. Why? Because their wife was a reporter with the top TV station. Things like that. Just the, the challengers that he has had have not had the money he’s got, you know. When you are an incumbent you have a lot of money. And money, money does buy votes. Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, didn’t he benefit greatly from, from the miscalculation that Bustamante made in drawing that district with all those conservatives? Mr. Molina: Yes. Dr. Gutiérrez: That was Bustamante’s doing, no? Mr. Molina: You know, Bustamante had a girl working for him named Sylvia Arreola, and she helped him re-district that thing. And when, when these things came up, you know, we looked at it carefully and, and he made a mistake. He made a mistake. He had mentioned about buying the house for Dominion, but she made a mistake when I said look, let’s, let’s make signs, bumper stickers that saying, that say Republicans for Bustamante. And she didn’t want me involved with him at all because I had voted in the Republican primary and yet, and then after that, signs came out that said Democrats for Bonilla. And so, you know, when you lose communication, it started, you lose everything and she just didn’t want me around because I had voted Republican, I guess. But I was there anyway, but I wasn’t as effective as I could have been. A lot of people are that way. Dr. Gutiérrez: Organization. Mr. Molina: Just like he never forgot his roots. You know, Albert didn’t forget the people, you know, he didn’t forget his roots. I guess, you know, but like you said, money bought a lot of votes. Dr. Gutiérrez: Is he still married to Mr. Molina: Yes. Mrs. Bustamante. I talk to her frequently. Dr. Gutiérrez: Since you know about organizations, same question. Who, who, in your mind, are, are the most effective organizations we have in our community? Local, national, state. Mr. Molina: The national, national, it is the National Council of La Raza. Raul Yzaguirre is a survivor. He is from Edinburg, Texas and he, Raul is... has survived Republican and Democrat administrations. He is up in Washington and his success is dealing with corporations. In fact, about a month ago I was having dinner with an important person at J. C. Penney, talking about how the Executive Director, Raul Yzaguirre was coming to their, to their, to their corporate headquarters in Dallas and they were going to give him a check and they were excited about that. You know, you don’t see that very often with other men. And that is where I think LULAC has failed. The communications with corporations. I think LULAC could be an exciting, exciting organization. If I really had the time and the money, I would love to be president of LULAC and do it the right way. I think the last effective president we had was Mario Obledo and Oscar Moran that made an impact because he had an "in" to the White House. But since then I don’t think we have had a very effective leadership. You know, Hispanics say like the Blacks, the Blacks always have leaders. They have a Jesse Jackson or they have a, a Martin Luther King and some people say well, the Hispanics can’t do that because we don’t have a national leader. Well, the truth is we have a lot of leaders. We have a lot of leaders on the national, on a, on a, on a local level who really could mobilize these things and get things going, but we just do need strong leadership. So, I think LULAC could be a tremendous organization. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, under Barreto, was prospering, was doing very well, but you don’t hear about it anymore. They have lost their clout. And, and so I think that those three are the top ones. Dr. Gutiérrez: And locally or here in Texas? Mr. Molina: Probably the same ones. You know, LULAC. LULAC gets involved politically as much as they can, but they are, you know, they don’t get listened to as much as they should by the governor. The Hispanic TAMACC. TAMACC had some influence for awhile and then they lost it and I hope they gain it back. They, they had it because they had corporate support and they had legislative support, but I haven’t seen them as involved anymore. And by the way, Joe Morin, who was the, the chairman of the board of TAMACC, was, or the president of TAMACC, I hired Joe in that position in 1983. So, I told TAMACC, I said we need to have an office on Congress just downtown Austin; and we were working out of a little insurance agency building way up on First Street or something. And so he built that organization up and I am proud to have hired Joe for that position. You know. There again, maybe it is time for a leadership change there. I don’t know. I haven’t talked to Joe in several months. Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, he just resigned from the Lottery Commission and Mr. Molina: That is right. Dr. Gutiérrez: to make possible John Hill being appointed and that has led to some other interesting developments. Mr. Molina: I was, I had lunch with somebody at the Lottery Commission last Wednesday and we talked about some of the changes there. You know, that position there was, was, was Nora Linares, but there again, when she didn’t communicate with the LULAC, then LULAC turned against her. And that, this just goes back to communications. We have a representative here or a city council person here named Helen Ayala and Helen I knew well. And I like Helen very much. But we were on different sides of an issue one time and after that happened, she quit talking to me. And that was the worst thing she could have done. So, when she was there, she would quit talking to people. She would not get their ear anymore and, and, or, or, and they, and she was ousted. She lost the next city council race. When you, my father always told me, when you can talk things out, you can work things out. And at the same time he said, "put things in writing." He says, "I can read your letter, but I can’t read your mind." And, and so we, you know, we don’t communicate and that is our downfall is lack of communication in our community. Dr. Gutiérrez: Earlier you said that we should be in both parties and earlier than that you talked about the interest you had in the developments in Crystal City and La Raza Unida Party, what do you, what do you think of our, or what did you think then or what do you think now of the Raza Unida Party effort of trying to organize Mexicanos into an independent political block? Mr. Molina: I, I wish, I wish it could be done. It is not going to be done without economics. Back then, like I said, they tried to scare me. They said, "oh, this happens. Oh, this guy Gutierrez and what not." But, for some reason, I was just intrigued by it and I wanted to read more about it. I was just, I was just, a moment in our history that I am glad I was able to see it and live it. If, if this gentleman, Ciro Rodrigues wins, he will be the first Raza Unida member in, in Congress and I am very happy for that. You know, sometimes it takes decades to change things. But, they, but they do change. And I wish that we could do it on a statewide level and on a national level. Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, the Raza Unida Party lasted about a decade. Now we only have the two parties and it is pretty clear cut that minorities are in the Democratic Party and, and whites are, are overwhelmingly in the Republican Party. So, what prospect is there for Hispanics in the Republican Party? Mr. Molina: Well, sheer numbers. If we, if we got numbers in, in, in our, in, on the state level, on the state level in, for the, what do we call that? It is called SREC, I believe. The State Republican Party Committee, you know. Let me tell you. You know, a lot of people think that they, that because they are Republicans or they, they hate the Mexicanos. That is not true. That is not true. You know, it is fear of the unknown that we actually know how they think or they know how we think and where we come from. And, and, and, and of course, everything goes back to the community. Two things. Communications and economics. You know, we have had, we have had Democrats on state level. Look what they are doing. What did Morales do or what is he doing now? You know? And that is our affirmative action. So, it is not the Party. It is the person in power. It is the person there. Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, but you will admit that the Republicans do have strong positions that are very anti-Mexican? That whole thing on immigration and English Only, the Affirmative Action. Mr. Molina: The Republicans have a, I believe English Plus. Not English Only. If you learn English Plus something else and I think it is very important. You know, you know, the movie Selena talked about that you had to be twice as good to get half the credits. And, and that is true. If we ourselves made it a point to tell them why haven’t the Blacks succeeded more than we have? We ourselves told them over and over, look, we are smarter than you are. We know two languages. You only know one. You know, why is it Jose Angel, that whenever we see a Gringo that speaks Spanish we are awed by him? Ahh muy buen hombre, habla espanol . (Ahh, good man,. speaks Spanish), you know. You have heard that a million times. What is it? It is no magic thing. We speak two languages. Why can’t they? I think it ought to be a, a, a requisite, you know, a requisite to going into school, to learn two languages. I mean, here we are in, in South Texas and it is our own fault that a lot of our generation or younger don’t speak Spanish. And that is really a shame. I don’t know how your view is on that, but I, I, we just got to have our two languages, you know. Your daughters speak Spanish, you know. And I am sure that others with a, I was with somebody the other day that, that said unfortunately I didn’t speak Spanish even though she was born and raised in Laredo, Texas. I mean, that is sad. That is really sad. Dr. Gutiérrez: Are you going to run for county judge again in Karnes County? Mr. Molina: No. No. If anything, I am looking at a senate race here in this area. I still vote in Karnes County. My wife votes here in San Antonio. But, the senator that is here is, is getting up in years and he hasn’t had good health and I would have to switch to this area here six months before or a year before. Dr. Gutiérrez: Senator Luna? Mr. Molina: Yeah. Yeah. I saw him up on the Senate floor the other day. But, there again, I know that Puente... Puente is looking at this seat, so if there is somebody like that, I probably won’t. But, I don’t know. You never know what is going to happen. And of course the Henry B. race is going to become open when he gets older and I am in Henry B.’s congressional district. Dr. Gutiérrez: Would you run as a Republican? Mr. Molina: I, I would have to look at the numbers. Look at the numbers and see how they are. I don’t think this area would vote for a Republican. I think there was a Republican run against him this last time, didn’t do anything. No. I would look at it very carefully and, and vote, and vote in the Republican, in the Democrat primary if that was the case. But, that, like I said, Party, it means nothing to me. I think it is the person doing the job. You know, you talked about two parties awhile ago. Ross Perot had a lot of money and he couldn’t get his Party off the ground. So, can you imagine what it would take to have another Party? So, you know.... Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, I know. Mr. Molina: Pardon me. Dr. Gutiérrez: I know firsthand. Mr. Molina: I know that. I know that. Is it possible to call my wife and say hello to her so you can meet her? Dr. Gutiérrez: Right now? We are just about to finish this. I was just going to ask you what, what is next for Henry? What is in the plans? You are working for the state government; you are thinking about a senate race perhaps; you are thinking about a congressional race; what other plans do you have? What are we going to hear from Henry Molina about...? Mr. Molina: I, you know, inside I want to do so many things. Dr. Gutiérrez: Such as? Mr. Molina: Just have an impact on my, on, on the people that I am, that, that you know, my friends and family. Karnes City is still there on the back of my mind. Karnes County is. My wife says leave it alone. Leave it alone. Stay away. You are here now. She, she was, she knew the pain that I went through and that I am still going through seeing who is our country judge now; and seeing that nothing has gotten done since I lost; and seeing the impact that we could have made if I had won; and it is very painful Jose Angel. It is very painful. That job, and you kow, I make double the salary I would have made then as, as county judge, but just, just that one night to have won that race. It, it just hurts so much. But so, my father, I talked to him awhile ago and he says we still got, we still got to take care of the streets over here. They are still not paved. Our kids are still being discriminated against in Karnes City schools. We don’t have, I think we have one principal at the junior high level that is Latino. We are seventy percent. But you go down there and you try to get them educated and try to help the people and, and some of them just won’t listen. Oh, I am afraid of my job. The biggest employer in Karnes County is a guy named Red Ewalt and the Latinos, Mexicanos made all his money for him and they can’t see that they can do it for themselves. You know, you beat your head against the wall so much, I mean, eventually it is going to hurt, you know. So, I don’t know. Right now, I am just doing my job in state government. I have got a real good boss who is a redneck. He is a redneck and I know that he is a redneck and he told me. I mean, he says, "that we have to work together and I need you. I need you for this position because I know that you will do a good job and it is going to make me look good." OK. I know that. He knows that. But, he doesn’t, he doesn’t beat around the bush. I would rather have somebody like that tell me exactly where they come from than somebody that, that, that is nice to you and is going to stab you in the back, you know. And, and but he doesn’t have the education and so that, that, I have just got to do a good job where I am at now until, you know, try to see what is, what is next. Let’s see how long I last in that position there. I am not really cRazay about going, about working for government. Your hands are too tied. You can’t fire people. You can’t hire people at will, you know. You have to go through a lot of paperwork to get a consultant in. You know, those things. Dr. Gutiérrez: Ideally, what is it you would like to be doing? Mr. Molina: I think working, I think in the Senate or in the House. Dr. Gutiérrez: Oh, in public office? Mr. Molina: In public office. Yeah. My wife’s friends, they are trying to say... that because he says, "no." She doesn’t like campaigns at all. She is a teacher. She is very conservative. She is a security freak and she knows that I take things personal. You know, my highs are very high. My lows are very low. I don’t know what else. Dr. Gutiérrez: Anything, personal things that we have left out in terms of, of hobbies or interests or talents or skills? I mean, we knew that you played the trumpet. You like to read? You like to hunt? You play golf? You swim? We know you don’t drink or smoke. Mr. Molina: I want to say just one last thing that a man once told me in Colorado me dijo cuidate bien los primeros cuarenta anos y los otros cuarenta se cuidan solos . (he said, take care of the first forty years and the following forty will take care of themselves.) Take care of yourself your first forty years of your life and the next forty will take care of themselves. I was very proud last week to have broken two ribs and still ran six miles, 6.2 miles, 10K run in one hour and fifteen minutes. At forty eight years old, that is not bad. Dr. Gutiérrez: So you are a jogger? You got no problem with your knees or anything like that? Mr. Molina: Oh no. No. No. Dr. Gutiérrez: That is amazing to be able to, to, to run that much. Well, that is Mr. Molina: I didn’t train for it. I had Dr. Gutiérrez: That is even more incredible. Mr. Molina: I had, I was just walking back and forth to the Capitol everyday, so I knew I could do it, but that first mile, after I did the first mile, I knew I could do the rest of it, you know. Dr. Gutiérrez: Wow. Mr. Molina: But I am really, really excited that you are here. You know, it is, it is an honor and a pleasure to have known you. And to know you. I want the best for this program. Whatever I can do to help, I will... Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, you have. You have given us this interview. Mr. Molina: Yeah. This is a long time in coming. We talked about this a long time ago. Just let me know whatever I can do for their, for your program and I will be happy to do it. Dr. Gutiérrez: You can augment this interview with memorabilia, especially clippings from the Karnes County race or that, anything that you might have along those lines. Think of this as, as your safety deposit box. Mr. Molina: Who is going to see this? Dr. Gutiérrez: Who, whichever person wants to research Mexican-Americans or public affairs or politics. It is to be at the Archive at the University of Texas, Sixth Floor, Special Collections. Mr. Molina: That’s great. Dr. Gutiérrez: So anything you want to add to it, now or in the future, we would love to have it. Mr. Molina: Thank you very much. Dr. Gutiérrez: Thank you. Mr. Molina: OK.