Oral History Interview with Juan"Chuy" Hinojosa Hinojosa, Juan Interview conducted by José Angel Gutiérrez, Ph.D., J.D. Interview transcribed by Karen McGee José Angel Gutiérrez Transcript converted to XML encoding by Scott Holmes Scott Holmes Center for Mexican American Studies, University of Texas at Arlington Texas State Library and Archives Commission 43 pages Published online as part of the Tejano Voices Project. University of Texas at Arlington Libraries
P.O. Box 19497, Arlington, Texas, 76019-0497

Literary rights and title are owned by the University of Texas at Arlington Libraries.

 2001

Source: MS-Word file transcript of video recording CMAS No. 165.

Oral history interviews published online as the Tejano Voices Project, partially funded by a grant received in 2001 from the Texas State Library and Archives Commission's TexTreasures program.

 Library of Congress Subject Headings Library of Congress Name Authority File Jose Angel Gutiérrez Juan "Chuy" Hinojosa none English Spanish Hinojosa, Juan Gutiérrez, Jose Angel University of Texas at Arlington. Center for Mexican American Studies Mexican Americans--Texas--Interviews oral history interview Tejanos Chicanos

The University of Texas at Arlington

Oral History Interview with Juan "Chuy" Hinojosa, 2003 Center for Mexican American Studies (CMAS) Interview Number 165 Mexican American Public Figures of Texas Location of Interview: Albuquerque, New Mexico Number of Transcript Pages: 43 Cite as: Oral History Interview with Juan "Chuy" Hinojosa, CMAS 165, Special Collections, University of Texas at Arlington Libraries. Interviewee: Juan "Chuy" Hinojosa Interviewer: José Angel Gutiérrez, Ph.D., J.D. Transcribers: Karen McGee and José Angel Gutiérrez Date of Interview: August 13, 2003 Location of Interview: Albuquerque, New Mexico Juan "Chuy" Hinojosa Dr. Gutiérrez: All right. We are recording and I'm going to ask you to sign the Deed of Gift form which means you are giving this as a gift for educational purposes to UT Arlington. Senator Hinojosa: Education is the best equalizer to have in a society. Education gives you knowledge and knowledge gives you power, so I'm going to write it for you. That's why I'm doing it as a gift. Dr. Gutiérrez: All right. And then at the bottom, if, if you'll put a mailing address, we'll send you a copy of the video tape here in, in a week or so and then much later we'll send you the transcript. Senator Hinojosa: OK. Dr. Gutiérrez: It's unedited and anything you want to add in terms of paper documents because it is an archive and it would be most welcome and appreciated. Senator Hinojosa: I have a lot of boxes of documents. Dr. Gutiérrez: 8/13. Well, if, if no university has asked you to put that, your papers at their, at their place, we, we, we have the labor archives basically in UT Arlington and we'd be glad to have your papers. Whatever you want to send. Paper documents. Photographs, clippings, campaign material, press releases. Senator Hinojosa: I got a lot of notebooks. I'd be glad to make them copies... Dr. Gutiérrez: OK. Senator Hinojosa: ...for you. Dr. Gutiérrez: Great. Senator Hinojosa: And then a gift mode to the university. Dr. Gutiérrez: Great. All right. What is leadership? Senator Hinojosa: Leadership is being able to, being able to lead and do what's right for the public, what you think in your conscience is the right thing to do and not buckle to pressure. And I guess abuse of power and money and give up on your principles and beliefs. Dr. Gutiérrez: Who is the most effective Mexican American leader today? Senator Hinojosa: Well, first let's say that leadership also means that, that you must be able to take certain risks, calculated risks and not be afraid and, and I always go back to a very favorite saying of mine, that I didn't say, but Emiliano Zapata said, that I'd rather die than live on my knees. I think it's very, very, something I got taught very early, in my, in my, in my youth by my parents, but it also helped me in the United States Marine Corp when I served in Viet Nam as a, as a squad leader because I was afraid many times, but I was not afraid to, to die. I could lead my squad into combat. Now, who is the most effective leader today, nowadays? Hispanic? Dr. Gutiérrez: Mexican American. Senator Hinojosa: Mexican American. You know, I don't think there's any one leader that stands out right now. We have a whole group of leaders, Hispanic leaders, Mexican American leaders, throughout the country, from Gonzalo Barrientos to, to myself, you know, to the, the Lieutenant Governor of California. [Cruz] Bustamante who is running now for governor. Our leadership is so widely dispersed, but in a way that's, that's good because we, we are leaders in our own right in our communities. But to have one person stand out, we don't have, we don't have one. I don't, I don't see that person. At one time there was Henry Cisneros and he had some unfortunate personal situations that derailed him, but I think he could come back if he wanted to. But I don't see any nationwide leader that leads the Hispanic community. Dr. Gutiérrez: Which is the most effective Mexican American political organization? Senator Hinojosa: I, I think mostly it's a combination of groups. You have La Raza out of Washington, D. C. that's Raul Yzaguirre. LULAC [League of United Latin American Citizens] who is not as active as they used to be when Ruben Bonilla was its leader. You have the different caucuses. The Mexican American Caucus in the Legislature, the Senate Hispanic Caucus. You have, I guess, the [American] G. I. Forum. But as to who, which group is the most effective, that's a difficult answer, it is a difficult question to answer because again, our power in terms of effectiveness, is forming coalitions with different Hispanic groups and Black groups and, and some of the other community oriented organizations. Dr. Gutiérrez: What is the most pressing issue facing Mexican Americans today? Senator Hinojosa: Well you know, I would say, an off-the-cuff remark, but I, I, I guess I, I better not. But the reality is, is education. Yeah. We, we need to focus on education and education is just so important because it gives them knowledge and knowledge gives them power. It really empower, empowers us. But why it is, if you think about it is this. Remember how the Democrats complained about Hispanics voting Republic and in that the Hispanics are educated and they benefited from Affirmative Action, they have benefited from civil rights marches, they benefited from the Democratic sacrifices to get Hispanics educated. It is true. But then they complain because you get a Hispanic who buys a second used Mercedes and now they think they are Republicans. But the reality is this. If we're to... I don't think that if if a Hispanic wants to be a Republican, so be it. I don't blame that person. I blame the Party because we are in a market of competition of ideas, trying to influence the masses and if we cannot attract Hispanics as a, as a, as a Party, as the Democratic Party, then it's our fault. It is not the person who goes and becomes a Republican. And I think we really need to make a stronger effort to articulate our issues. And I'll give you an example. We need to keep close to our base, to our principles and beliefs and not try to imitate the Republicans. I'm talking about the Democratic Party because the Democratic Party sometimes will forget where it came from. It forgets its grassroot support and tries, and tries to be too conservative on issues that are important to the, not only to the Hispanic community, but to the working families of our country. Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, so education being your first answer right away, do you mean education in a very broad sense? Not formal education per se? Senator Hinojosa: No. In, in a broad sense. You don't have to go to college to, to, to, to be a, an educated person. My father dropped out in the fifth grade, but let's not confuse education with intelligence. And you know, a lot of, a lot of people who are self-educated, a lot of people who have a lot of skills to offer in terms of the, of the job market, our economy. So, I look at education in a broader sense. Not having a degree, a college degree. Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, you mentioned your father. Let's talk about your family biography. Father, grandfather, mother, grandmothers. Where did they come from? When, why? Your family. Your brothers and sisters. Your wife, your family, your children. Senator Hinojosa: Well, let, let's talk about .. . Dr. Gutiérrez: Who, who are you? Senator Hinojosa: I'm just a poor cotton picker from South Texas. Dr. Gutiérrez: Ay si, probecito. (Ah yes, poor.) Senator Hinojosa: But let me tell you. You know, it's very interesting because my mom is from La Escondida, Nuevo Leon. (place in Mexico). Dr. Gutiérrez: La Escondida? Senator Hinojosa: Un ranchito (a little ranch) out by Monterrey (city in state of Nuevo Leon in Mexico). She was here in this country as a wetback. That's what we used to call them when, when, when I was young and now they are called undocumented workers. That, that's what they used to call us at that time. So she came over here illegally. We crossed the river and I was born here in the United States. She married my father, Juan De Dios Hinojosa, who was a Tejano. Hispanic Tejano. My great, my grandfather and great- grandfather on my dad's side, my father's side, are Hispanic, but were born in Texas. My mother's side, they all come from Mexico. And we worked in the fields when I was a kid. When I was five years old, my mother was here illegally, was deported by the Border Patrol. They caught me and her and my, my oldest brother, my, my brother next to me. And I'm a U. S. citizen. And they deported us in a paddy wagon back to Mexico without even telling my father. It took him a week to find us and locate us. We lived behind a, a, a beer joint, a bar in Mexico, in Reynosa (city across the border from McAllen, Texas) for a year before my father could get her the proper documentation to make her a legal resident. So, my earliest experience with La Migra [nickname for Immigration and Naturalization Service], Border Patrol. But my father and mother always stress, stressed education. And in those days, we didn't have bilingual education, but my teachers... And I remember Mrs. Sutter, Mrs. Seagal, Mr. Rodriguez, Miss Cavazos, from beginners on would speak Spanish in the classroom. They would teach me to say manzana (apple) for apple, you know, pera (pear). So we had it in a, a sense, an informal bilingual education program in place. And as I grew up to my, I mean, I come from a large family. I come from a family of eleven. I'm the oldest and we, quite frankly, used to pick cotton, tomatoes, carrots, onions, sandias, melons, (watermelons, melons), citrus. And every summer we go up north to work and come back always in time to start school because my father was very insistent that we get an education and that we finished school. In the school I was very lucky that I had teachers who were very much interested in, in educating, in education. As a matter of fact, Jose Angel, your, your, your wife, Gloria [Garza] and her family... I mean, she was one of my best friends. And her family, we, they are a great family that I grew up with all through high school. And I'm sure that we talked about teachers willing to stay after class to teach people like me the difference between CH and the SH, cha--sha sound. And I liked sports, so I got involved in sports. So, it was also very helpful to me because I had coaches that were very disciplined and taught me about, well, about getting exercise, about being, being tough. And about being able to focus on, on certain assignments. But when I was in high school, there was some difficulties. There's no doubt that the city of Mission, the tracks separated the Anglo community from the Hispanic community. I always wondered how come the Anglos had much nicer houses than us Hispanics. Even their calejones (alleys) were paved. Our main, our streets, our main streets were not paved. Crystal Water Swimming Pool in Mission, if you were Hispanic you could not swim there. We had the Manhattan Café. They didn't allow Mexicans to eat there. There's, there's certain discrimination that I grew up with which slowly but surely disappeared. And, and it disappeared after generation after generation. And each generation gets better in terms of doing away with discrimination. But it didn't keep my teachers, both Anglo and, and, and Hispanics of doing a, a, of being committed to education in, in the Mission Independent or the Mission school system. So, we had a, we had very good teachers. We had Kenneth White as the superintendent. Cordell Wright and I, we used to get together and study together as a group, so that's how we benefited from that. Dr. Gutiérrez: Not, not to make you have an embarrassing moment, but the only name you provided was your father. Can you give us names of your mother and your grandparents and your brothers and sisters? Names. Senator Hinojosa: My, my, my mother is named Esperanza Vela. She's still alive. My father died at the age of fifty-two from cancer. And he was a truck driver for Havana Materials, Mr. Bodine. My father... Just to give you a little bit of history on my father because it's very important. The truck drivers were organizing because they were not happy with the pay. My father, being the foreman, became the spokesperson for them. Well, guess what? He got fired. He had to move to San Antonio, away from our, from his family for at least a year. So he worked driving a truck during the day and fixing flats in a Shamrock service station in the night. My mother used to work out in the fields with us and then she, she stopped, you know. You know, somebody had to do all the cooking and washing and care of the house. Her mother, my mother is from Mexico, the rancho (ranch) I mentioned a while ago. Esperanza Vela. My brothers, I have Gilberto, Javier, Juanito, I have Martin. My sisters are Sylvia, Janie. I have Irma, another sister, and another half brother, Meme. And my grandfather's...Well my grandfather on my dad's side was Juan, Juan De Dios Hinojosa just like my, my dad. And, and on my mother's side, Carmen Vela. And we always used to call him Papa Chiquito (Little Father) on, on my dad's side. On my mom's side it was Abuelito (Grandfather). And we used to go out and travel up to Mexico and stay at the ranch sometimes with the family. Very interesting. 6 Dr. Gutiérrez: What was his name? Abuelito? Senator Hinojosa: Abuelito was Carmen. Dr. Gutiérrez: Oh, I thought that was the grandmother. Senator Hinojosa: No, it was my grandfather. Dr. Gutiérrez: OK. Senator Hinojosa: My grandmother's name on my mother's side was Rosa. Rosa Carmen Vela. Dr. Gutiérrez: So you would visit the Vela clan in Mexico often or...? Senator Hinojosa: Oh yes. We used to visit them often and almost on a regular basis. On my father's side, Papa Grande (Big Father), that's what we used to call him, and, and Papa Chiquito, but, but Papa Grande was actually my great-grandfather. Dr. Gutiérrez: What's his name? Te acuerdas (You remember)? Senator Hinojosa: I, I... Yeah. We used to know him just... Mora was probably his last name. Hinojosa. We used to just call him Papa Grande. Dr. Gutiérrez: OK. Senator Hinojosa: So... Dr. Gutiérrez: Mora Hinojosa? Senator Hinojosa: Yeah. You asked for these names impromptu and I can't remember sometimes. Dr. Gutiérrez: Yeah, I know. Sometimes it's very embarrassing for almost everybody in an interview. Senator Hinojosa: But, but we, and we used to go out of Raymondville and, and, and Lubbock. We used to go out to Robstown to work in the fields. Dr. Gutiérrez: Oh, so you were an in state migrant? Senator Hinojosa: No, we, we also migrated to Illinois. Dr. Gutiérrez: Ah. What crops or when, how long did you do that? Senator Hinojosa: Esparago, esparago (Asparagus, asparagus), but then what we found out was that in Illinois, because they had a union shop, that you got paid very high wages if you joined the union and, and planted sod on expressways. That's grass. Or, or the airport, O'Hare Airport [Chicago, Illinois]. So, we started working in that type of work because we could make about three hundred dollars or four hundred dollars a week which at that time was a lot of money. Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, when were you born? Senator Hinojosa: I was born in 1946. Dr. Gutiérrez: And where are you in the eleven children, where are you? Senator Hinojosa: I'm the oldest. Dr. Gutiérrez: You're the oldest? Senator Hinojosa: I'm the oldest. I was the first one to go to college and get a degree and then get and then, then to go to law school. Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, how did, how did...? First, you get out of high school with the migrant work and all those kids. And I guess you're mother was a stay at home mom except for the summer work. Senator Hinojosa: Yeah. You know, we, my, my childhood days and high school were great. I had a lot of fun. I mean, I played football, basketball. We, we, it was a very pleasant, positive experience for me in high school. I never thought about having, that I had to work such long hours as, as, it didn't do anything to me. I just thought it was just normal. I know there were some bullies. I, I don't, I'll tell you one time, that one time I got beat up by this guy. This is, this is such a, such a story when I was a kid. I was selling The Monitor [Rio Grande Valley newspaper] or at least the paper out on the streets. But guy beat up on this guy and, and another friend intervened, who was this big, old boy. Dr. Gutiérrez: Over your money or just, just because you were ... Senator Hinojosa: No, just because. Dr. Gutiérrez: ...you were out there selling papers. Senator Hinojosa: I was out there selling papers. Dr. Gutiérrez: Te creas mucho? (You thought you were hot stuff)? Senator Hinojosa: Yeah. Te trees muy chignon. (You think you are a big fucker). Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, those attitudes.... Senator Hinojosa: Yeah. And believe it or not, it was an, an Anglo kid who, who, who was pretty strong. He, he got him off of me. And it's interesting because that's when I really got interested in doing exercises, building myself up, just to at least defend myself. But one of the key ingredients, besides my mom, my mom and my dad that would help me stay in school was sports. And my teachers were always very pleasant. One of the key teachers that made me into an "A" student, from about a C+ to a B, was a Mrs. Wolfrum. Dr. Gutiérrez: How do you spell it? Senator Hinojosa: Wolfrum. Wolfrum. W-O-L-F-R-U-M. Dr. Gutiérrez: OK. Senator Hinojosa: Era una senora ya viejita, pero de mucho respeto. (She was an older woman, but greatly respected. And as a matter of fact, Gloria [Garza] was, she was... We took classes with her together. And a very, very respected teacher. Well, she made me from a C+, B student to an "A" student. And, and those people encouraged me to stay in school. Dr. Gutiérrez: Was this the day of homeroom teacher where she was everything or did you rotate? Senator Hinojosa: We, we rotated. We rotated. Dr. Gutiérrez: What, what did she teach then? Senator Hinojosa: English. Dr. Gutiérrez: English. Senator Hinojosa: Yes. We had Mr. Rodriguez who was Rod, Rodriguez who used to teach math. Mrs. Cavazos used to teach Social Studies. Mrs. Souter used to teach, I think it was English or, or spelling. We, we had a, we used to rotate classes. And, and the other thing that... Mission was really a small community, so we knew each other very well. And during the day we interacted very well with the Anglo, Hispanic, and what have you, to the point that, that after school was over we would go back home. Separate communities. There was a time when we exchange, we would bring maybe tacos, frijoles, rolls and what have you to school for lunch. The gringos would bring sandwiches, so we would exchange. We would eat their sandwiches and they would eat our tacos. Talk about having to, to merge and have to mingle our cultures and, and learn. Dr. Gutiérrez: What about those segregated parades and queens and things that I read about still in Mission? What were your thoughts then or what did you see and did you participate? Or the, the, the churches, were you an altar boy, were you in Little League, Boy Scout? 10 Senator Hinojosa: Well, I used to go to catechism a lot until they asked me to leave because I would ask them too many questions. They said, "You don't have faith?" And I said, "I do have faith, but I want you to answer my questions." And they wouldn't answer them for me, so I pretty much didn't continue with catechism. Dr. Gutiérrez: But there's two churches, the one that the priest has a dog that attends Mass and then the other church by, by Gloria's house. Senator Hinojosa: That's right. I used to go to the one at Guadalupe on Dorothy Street. Dr. Gutiérrez: This is that one with the priest and the dog at the mass? Senator Hinojosa: That's right, that's right. Dr. Gutiérrez: OK. Is that the Mexican church? Senator Hinojosa: Yes. That was a Mexican church. Dr. Gutiérrez: OK. Is there a Mexican cemetery in Mission? Senator Hinojosa: Yes. Yes. Dr. Gutiérrez: And what other cemeteries? Senator Hinojosa: Well, cemeteries for Hispanics in... No dejaban a los Mexicanos (They did not let to be buried in the cemeteries where the gringos were buried. But there's changes now. It's amazing, but it, it's so different now. You know, I always tell people that we're no different than the gringos here and I, I, I'll give you a story on how I got the money for the rack. Because in reality... Where our culture might be different, we're all Americanized because we go to school. And we all want good jobs. We want our families safe. We want criminals behind bars and we want nice houses, a nice car and for our kids to be, to get a very good education. And we are still learning that our goals, in, in many ways, are, are, they are the same. We have to respect each other's cultures and differences. And that I like arroz (rice), frijoles (beans) and burrito [filled tortilla] and you like something else that's different. Now, I like steaks, too, you know. I just like my rice and beans. So, it, it, but it's a learning process that at that time the generations that were in control sort of looked at us like well, separate but equal. And it really wasn't even equal. But as, as we get educated, as we learn more about each other, you find that hey, we're all Americans. You know, we're here too; this is our country. 11 Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, tell me about that. Why did you decide to go to college and who planted that seed or when did you know that you wanted to be a lawyer? All of this got interrupted with Viet Nam, no? Senator Hinojosa: Well actually you know, when I was in, in, in high school, they used to try to channel the Hispanics to, to, to, to vocational programs. They didn't encourage us to go to college, but I wanted to go to college and of course, I wanted to be a lawyer when I became a senior. And some of my friends would laugh at me, jokingly, and say to me, "Chuy, you can't even speak English. How are you going to go to college?" Dr. Gutiérrez: How did this, where did this come from? Senator Hinojosa: I, I don't know. I'm not sure, but I guess from, from TV and, and stuff that I read. I liked politics and what was going on. I got interested in it. But then it was very interesting because I was bored in school. I went to Pan American [University then; Rio Grande Valley University of Texas branch now] for one semester. I got offered several scholarships to play football. Dr. Gutiérrez: What year was that? Senator Hinojosa: 1965. Because I played quarterback for, for the football team. was captain of the football team, captain of the basketball team. And then I wanted to be... I was bored with, with college. I didn't take any of the scholarships because I... When I played football I cracked one of my ribs and I said, "Ya" (Enough). I'll study." Well, I saw all of my friends going to Viet Nam, so I decided to volunteer. I was not drafted. I volunteered to join the United States Marine Corps to go to Viet Nam. Yes, I knew I had made a mistake my first day in boot camp. And I was there and they slapped me around. And, "Put your feet here in this yellow marked feet on the cement." And I said, "Oh my god, what did I do?" So I said, "Oh lord, please let me wake up tomorrow morning and let all this be a dream and be back with my mama and hot tortillas and rice and beans." But the reality of it, the reality was that I was in the United States Marine Corp. And it was tough. I, I, I always remember when my dad and my mom took me to the Continental, Continental Bus Station there in McAllen. They put me on the bus and I was sad. But I went to Viet Nam and I spent fourteen months and it made me a better person. I learned a lot about life. And the United States Marine Corp really taught me a lot about survival, about leadership and, and, and there I was. I stayed fourteen months in Viet Nam. So, when I came back, I was very motivated. I mean, after being in Viet Nam and, and combat... A lot of my friends like Terry Lankford got killed. I can't pronounce his name, Morales, Banuelos got killed. A lot of, a lot of my good friends were killed over in Viet Nam. So, I came back you know, and I was very motivated. It took me two and a half years to graduate from Pan American University with honors. I went straight through undergraduate school. I was unloading mail trucks at night, thirty-five dollars a, a week and I felt very strong about it. And then, but I knew I wanted to go to law school. And I wanted to go to the University of Texas except that the University of Texas discriminated against Hispanics at that time. They only had about five Hispanics. You had to be the "right" Hispanic. To the point that one of my very good friends, George Young, Jr. from Harlingen wanted to go to law school at the University of Texas. I had a higher GPA than he did and a higher LSAT score than he did. He got accepted at UT. I got rejected. He wanted to go to Georgetown, one of the top ten law schools in the country, in Washington, D. C. He applied. He got rejected due to his grades. I got accepted because of my grades. He was so upset that UT rejected me that he went to the University of Houston Law School. And I think he joined the Navy. Can we take a little very short break? Dr. Gutiérrez: Sure. All right. Well, we were on, on the Viet Nam stuff and, and I guess the college, going to law school. You, you went to Georgetown. You know, you, you, obviously you don't have visibly the, the lasting effects of Viet Nam that others complain about. I'm sure you have opinion, but right now we ain't got time. And I'm sure you have a lot to comment about going to law school in Georgetown, but we don't have time for that either, so what ... Senator Hinojosa: I'll, I'll come back. Dr. Gutiérrez: ...what? The component that's missing is your political career. Senator Hinojosa: Yeah. Dr. Gutiérrez: So, so, I don't know that you can do in five minutes, but you don't have to hurry. You've got time and we can come back and do some more later. Senator Hinojosa: I'd rather do it and come back later because it's very interesting how I got involved in politics. I always thought that, that people should not be afraid and we should all run for public office. We need to participate in the political system. If we do not, we get left behind. This is why we have, right now, a shortage, what I consider of, of, of quality candidates, qualified candidates running for higher office in the Hispanic community. We need more people to participate. And I stay away from negative people because the nay-sayers will never get anything done. If I had believed people telling me, "You'll never be a lawyer. You'll never go to college. You'll never be anybody successful." Then, I wouldn't be where I am now. When I ran for public office initially... I, I liked politics. And I was driving to Corpus Christi, I, I used to work for Legal Aid [Texas Rural Legal Aid] after I graduated from, from, from, from law school. And I'll fill that gap in a minute, but this is important. Carl Looney at that time was the state representative. 14 Dr. Gutiérrez: Spell the last name. Senator Hinojosa: Carl Looney. L-O-O-N-E-Y. Dr. Gutiérrez: OK. Senator Hinojosa: Leo Montalvo, who is right now city, or the mayor of the city of McAllen, ran against Carl Looney as a Raza Unida [Party] candidate and he lost. Well, Carl Looney's family is very wealthy. They are ranchers. And he decided to retire at a very young age. He, he really didn't care for politics. And they were grooming Eddie De La Garza to run for, for, for Carl Looney's seat. Dr. Gutiérrez: Is this Kika's son [former U.S. Representative Eligio "Kika" de la Garza]]? Grandson? Senator Hinojosa: Kika's grand, grandson. Dr. Gutiérrez: Grandson. Senator Hinojosa: And I said well you know, I want to run for that seat. And I had worked on campaigns before, then on John Hill's campaign [former Texas Attorney General], so I knew all the basics, you know. And the trenches type of nitty-gritty stuff to put together a campaign. Well, I decided to run. I still remember. There used to be a, a, an overpass on the railroad on the way to Falfurrias. And that's when I said, "You know what? I'm going to run." So, I started making phone calls because that's what I wanted to do. I didn't get any support from the powers to be. I went... I, I, I feel that... I represented Elmer, Mission, McAllen, made up the district. I thought I'll be a good candidate. But I didn't get much support. And I guess we'll have to finish... [Break] Dr. Gutiérrez: I'm recording. Senator Hinojosa: OK. Well, you know, I always liked politics. I enjoy politics. I think for people to have a voice you need to participate and you have to have the energy and the drive and, and, and the, and the las ganas (the will) to do things. When I ran for... The first time I went to run for a public office was for state rep. [Texas House of Representatives]. That came open all of a sudden when Carl Looney decided to retire. And he was very, comes from a very wealthy family and I didn't hesitate at all. I thought about it and said that's what I wanted to do and I went. Dr. Gutiérrez: What year was this? Senator Hinojosa: 1980. And it was Matias, Nuri Matias, a J. P. and Eddie De La Garza, a, the, the grandson of Kika De La Garza, congressman, and myself. Well, I was the odd man out, so to speak. Nobody knew who I was even though I had been Assistant Attorney General for two and a half years, three and, three and a half years, filing lawsuits against corrupt and fraudulent businesses with John Hill. So, I was trained. And my mentor really was John Hill in terms of campaigning and organizing, door to door, telephone banks, getting the message out and trying to influence the minds of the masses, so to speak. And I didn't get any support. I went to visit with "the powers to be" and it was very interesting. They knew who I was, but they said, "No. We decided to anoint Eddie De La Garza." Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, who were these powers that be? Senator Hinojosa: Well, they were people that were in public office. They were all good people who were loyal to, to the Kika De La Garza clan. One of the conservative Hispanics. They thought I was too liberal. So, I said well, you know, I come from Penitas. That's the western part of the, of the district where I was running. I graduated from high school in Mission and I now live in McAllen. And I went to law, to college at UT, Texas Pan American in Edinburg. So I said I got it covered, I got all my bases covered. Said, "No, we can't support you. You don't have any money," which was true. So what I did... Excuse me a moment. My lips get very dry up here in New Mexico. 16 Dr. Gutiérrez: It's very dry here as opposed to the [Rio Grande] Valley. Senator Hinojosa: Oh, very dry. So I, what I did, I, well Ok. So I got my friends, Bill Baker who I served or was a member of the Jaycees of McAllen, a lot of my friends from high school like Gloria Garza, your wife, Linda, Oscar Alvarez, my family, all my sisters and brothers, and I filed. And we walked every single house from Sullivan City, the western part of the county to the Don Carlos Ranch, San Carlos Ranch on the western part of the district. My brother got bitten by a dog, but we worked very hard. And I made the runoff against Eddie De La Garza. Very interesting because he spent, he spent about three or four times what I spent. And my campaign was pura Raza(all Mexicans), working family issues. And I, I'll never forget this incident. We were at this dance hall. the [Hidalgo County] sheriff, Brig Marmolejo, was also running, but Beto Salinas who was the mayor of Mission at that time was running for county commissioner against a man who just passed away recently. And I forgot the other gentleman who was, who was in that race. In that race I was at a dance hall in Edinburg and Sheriff Brig Marmolejo was having a big pachanga (political rally, party)The pachangas, you know, they have the music and the whole works. And they let you dance, and then, during the break you would, all the politicos (politicians) would speak. And my opponent said, "Juan Hinojosa anda en la campana con puros borrachos en las cantinas." (Juan Hinojosa is on the campaign with the drunks in the bars.) Which was true. No que andaba borracho (Not that I was drunk), but I campaigned a lot in the, in the bars. La Grulla [a small city on the western side of Hidalgo County, en los barrios (in the neighborhoods), gente trabajadora (working people) because working families, they are truck drivers, people who work in the fields. And when they are finished, they go to the bars. Have a beer or two, play a little pool, and then, go home. They are not drunks. My turn, my turn came up to speak and I said, " Porque cuando uno de Mexicano, de Raza, si va a tomarse una cerveza dicen, 'Son borrachos! ' Porque cuando los gringos van al Country Club y se toman un Scotch and Water es social. Tan drinking, son borrachos? No!" (Why is it that when a Mexican, Raza, if we go drink a beer they say, "They're drunks.' Why when the gringos go to the Country Club and drink a Scotch and Water it's social drinking.) Feeling good and happy." I mean I knew when I said that everybody just exploded. I knew I had won that race con (with) poor working families. So he made a big mistake there, and I went on to win. And when I won it was very interesting also because it was a very hard fought campaign where he relied... Depending on the accomplishments of his uncle, Kika de la Garza. And I spoke and said, "I depend on what I have done; who I represent, and where I come from." So and I won the race. And for that... I, I, I came to Austin. I'd never went to the state capital. As a matter of fact, a good friend of mine, you probably know him, Moreno... Como se llama? (What is his name?) Alex from Edinburg came in the second time. So, I go up to the capital. An old pickup. Colchones (Mattresses) and everything. We didn't know any better. We parked right in front of the Capitol. So the Chicanos, Al Luna, friends of mine now, you know, some of these friends from Houston were passing by. They saw the pickup, con los colchones, "Ya llegaron los del valle." (with mattresses, 'The Valley guys have arrived.')" Excuse me. It was so interesting because it's true. "Ya llegaron los del barrio." (The ones from the neighborhood have arrived.) We had some reputation. And it's very important because it's true. But when we came in, the Mexican American Caucus was very weak. They were not well organized and they focused only on civil rights. And the other thing is that at that time they only allowed you to take, to have... Bill Clayton was the Speaker of the House. They would only allow you one bill to bring up to the House floor for debate. Talk about undemocratic procedures. I selected to take the bill for the farm workers to provide them with worker's compensation. I took on the Farm Bureau. I will, I will not go into details, but I will tell you this. We organized the Caucus to stop focusing on just civil rights, on Chicano issues. Let's focus on all this that impacts our families. So, we put a staff together and focused on banking, agriculture, oil and gas, education, health, economic development. We took it on. Initially we had a press conference on a regular basis at the state capitol. Nobody would show up. But they started paying attention slowly but surely. Boom! We became the most respected Caucus, Mexican American Caucus, to bring about change in the legislature. We demanded appointments. We demanded that our issues be heard. And to the point that it changed the whole, the whole image of the Mexican American Caucus. We were the shock troops, if you will. We were not afraid to do anything. I will tell you that [Jim] Hightower, when he was Commissioner of Agriculture, they tried to really screw him on chemicals. Excuse my language. They tried to take advantage and, and take away his budget, and they cut his budget in half. They took away all his power to regulate chem., chemicals in, in the cotton fields and the agriculture. But I formed a coalition with the Blacks and some of the progressive liberals from the cities, the suburbs, so we stopped the appropriation process. I remember the Speaker calling me into his private room and while the other representatives who were on the Republican side, he started yelling at me, "What are you doing? You've got the votes. You're going to kill the whole budget." "I'm not. You are. Look at what they are doing to Commissioner of Agriculture, to Hightower." It was very interesting. Just real close to me and just yell at me. You know, "You got bad breath. Please move away." And we won the fight. They backed off and gave us the money back to Hightower and killed the bill that was going to take his authority to regulate these chemicals where usually farm workers are the ones that get hurt by that. They would spray the fields while the farm workers were still out there picking cotton, picking tomatoes or, or, or carrots. And then I went on to deal with family issues, family violence, to the point that, you know, the old cliché about you know...They try to bring me in and make me chairman, chairman of the, they made me the chairman of the Committee on Criminal Jurisprudence. And they made me chairman of the Committee on Local and Consent. Then, after I became chairman, they changed the whole rules because I figured out the whole process on how to get bills passed through all the rules. But I got named Top Ten, the first Hispanic to be named Top Ten, one of the top ten legislators in the state of Texas. I got named again twice. But all this time, the legislature, I was not interested in being a Democrat or Republican. I was interested on issues based on merit. I didn't care if you were Republican. If you had an idea that helped who I represent, fine. I'll give you credit. And the most thing, the thing that is the most important in those situations is your word. Who are you? Who do you represent? Tienes Corazon. Tienes palabra. (Have heart. Have your word.) Or you are just a politician who can be bought off just like that. And I still remember, this is how reputations are made. I got up there and we were doing redistricting my very first session. So there was a big fight over a district, House district up in Dallas. The gentleman's name was Frank... I can't remember his last, all his name right now. He was state rep, but the Republicans wanted him out. I didn't know the guy. I knew that he was pretty liberal. So the Democrats wanted him in. But he voted against worker's comp for farm workers, for my folks back in South Texas. The Republicans asked me to vote with them and I did. This is a non issue for us. And guess what? I was the vote that made the difference and killed his district. When it happened, the Democrats, not all the Democrats, let's say it was a mix at that time, they asked for, for verification. And because a lot of Democrats voted with the Republicans, and they asked for verification. And I remember Barrientos, Gonzalo, my good friend Gonzalo Barrientos and Craig Washington, Johnny Bryant, Ron Coleman out of El Paso, they all came to my desk and said, "Let's take a walk." "Why am I going to take a walk? Leave the floor? I'm not going to do that." "Change your vote." "I'm not going to do that." "Why not?" "Hey, I gave them my word. I gave my word with them and I'm sticking to it." All the Republicans were about two, three desks away, just like this, watching. After that they left me alone. So on key issues, helping the farm workers, the Republicans were, were, would always work with me and change the laws to benefit farm workers. So it was an interesting experience for me. And god my lips are real dry up here. And since then I've always been very successful in passing legislation. Bringing about more money to the Valley, South Texas, creating a medical school, creating an, creating an engineering school at Pan American, expanding the educational opportunities for, for South Texas, bringing about more moneys in terms of economic development, junior colleges. I did all that through the process. I learned the rules, and to work with different folks. The legislature historically is bipartisan. You look at, you look at issues based on merit. It's only recently that we've turned partisan. But it's, it's been the type of, of situation where I became the chairman of the Mexican American Caucus. Now I'm chairman of the Senate Hispanic Caucus, but one of the things that is to be respected, you have to stand for something, you have to have certain beliefs. You can't just put your finger into the air, you know, and move whichever way. And if you believe in something, certain principles, certain issues, you'll stand your ground. Now, when we, when the Caucus became very effective we sort of diversified, so to speak, on the issues. The ones at the back mike took on the Establishment [powers-that-be]. They blew them out of the water because we did the research. We were prepared. We had the bullets. We didn't go there and say Raza (the Mexican community) this, Raza this and that, you know. It had already been done before and helped us to where we are. Now was the time to move on and start dealing with key issues that, that impacted everybody. So we gained a lot of respect. When we go out there and embarrass them an Establishment guy or gal in the front mike and we were at the back mike asking questions and wipe them out. We had press conferences. Boom, boom, boom. We did the facts. And that's the way it was. Very successful. Then I quit. Hell, I was going broke. The job doesn't pay. We get paid... I would clear less than a hundred dollars a month. This is how the corporations and the well-to-do will control politics. And I left. I was in debt almost close to a million dollars. I took about three years to pay it off. In the meantime, I got appointed to the [Higher Education] Coordinating Board by Governor Ann Richards, but I still love politics. But I paid off my debts in three years. I decided to run again. Dr. Gutiérrez: When did you quit and when did you run again? Senator Hinojosa: In 1991 I left office. People were very disappointed. They wanted me to run for Congress, "Do this." I didn't want to go to Congress. Texas is where the action is, not in Washington, D. C. So, I came, I did...I, I really didn't want to run and, for Congress. And, and I was happy being on the Coordinating Board and my law practice and being with my family. And something happened, you know. We needed a medical school in the Valley. They couldn't get it done. Tried once, couldn't do it, tried twice, couldn't do it. And Eddie De La Garza, as a matter of fact, ran for my post. And Eddie was a good legislator, but he had got personal problems that I will not go into. So, I got, I got sort of persuaded to run, to get the medical school and I did. I ran against Eddie De La Garza, an incumbent, and beat him again. And probably ... Yeah, I beat him, you know. And I will leave it at that. So I came back with the sole purpose of getting the medical school. My first session back, I got it. And it was an uphill battle. The first time I met with the, Dr. Cunningham, University of Texas [Chancellor]. I gave him what my idea was. So I sat down. You see, I'm, I'm... I understand politics. "Cunningham, let's get one thing straight. I don't work for you. You work for me. I work for the people." He got upset. That's what the Constitution says. I got up. Cunningham's very upset. H came back and sat down. "I didn't just get off the watermelon truck. Let's get it straight. This is what we need. We need a medical school in the Valley." He refused. He said no. Said, you know, "Dr. Cunningham, let me tell you." I said, "Tyler, Texas has one. The Valley is bigger than Tyler. McAllen is bigger than Tyler." I said, "Lubbock has one. The Valley is bigger than Lubbock. Even Odessa has one. Why not us in the Valley? Because we're Hispanics? We're Mexicans?" "We can't do it." "OK." So I used his own number, his own research from his own University of Texas folks. I said, "Well, OK. I'm going to go after it." Sure enough, three weeks, blast, blasted away in the press until he came back and says, "Can we have dinner?" I said, "Sure." We had dinner at a country club. Somewhere northwest... I don't know where it is. 23 Dr. Gutiérrez: In a social drink? Senator Hinojosa: In a social drink. No borrachos (drunks), man. And guess what? He agreed to help. To his credit, Dr. Cunningham went all out. I mean, he was a tremendous help in getting us the R.A.H.C. It was called the RAHC in the Valley. And it was an uphill battle. Dr. Gutiérrez: RAHC is an acronym for? Senator Hinojosa: Regional Academic Health Center. But it's, it's really a medical school. They start out and it becomes a, a, then it becomes a full medical facility, but it takes about eight to ten years to develop a medical school. And that's the money that's right now Governor Perry is withholding. But so we got it, we got it going and we had to jump through all loops and hoops, a lot of support from grassroots and in the end, we lost it. Junell took it off. Junell was chairman of Appropriations. And I will never forget this because I know what the rules are. This is why it's so important to understand the rules. I asked Junell, "Why, why, how, what, what's wrong? What's the problem?" We got the Coordinating Board to, the Coordinating Board initially rejected the idea, thumbs down. And Senator [Carlos] Truan and all the delegation, we were together except Eddie Lucio was one of the leading fighters in the Senate. Well, the press leaked out that the staff for the Coordinating Board's, the Board's recommending no. Well, the next day we appeared before the Coordinating Board and we asked, "Are you just going to rubber stamp what the Legislature says? Or are you going to make an independent assessment?" Oh, we've got it. So they said yes. In the end, when we lost the Coordinating Board and when we lost the money, I was very upset. So I, I, I called Chairman Junell and I said, "Rob, you know, I want to have a Conference Committee." "What, what for?" "I want a conference, that's what the rules say." He gave me a...In the Senate we knew we had the votes. In the House they gave me three Republicans, two Democrats. Well, one of them was Irma Rangel [now deceased, D-Kingsville] who is a very nice person, tremendously devoted to South Texas, she chaired the Committee of [Higher] Education. And Henry Cuellar, Henry Cuellar out of Laredo, and three Republicans. Well, the three Rs [Republicans] were with him or so he thought. So Buddy West from Midland/Odessa, from Midland/Odessa. I knew that maybe I may be able to persuade him. So I, I, well, "Buddy, can I talk to you?" He said, "Sure." I said, "Buddy, let me tell you. I really need this medical school in the Valley. We really need it. We have a lot of health problems. And, and we are growing very fast. Other parts of the state have them. Besides Buddy, let me tell you something. Our families in the Valley are no different than your families in Midland and Odessa. We want good homes. We want good jobs, good schools. We want criminals behind bars. And we also like good music, cold beer and loose women." I mean, he broke out laughing and giving me high five. He said "Chuy, you're all right." It's just a connection. I don't mean to disparage women, you know, but I just gave that as an example. He identified and bonded with me so quick, and boom. Fifty-five million dollars. June11 was very upset and was talking, "You can't do that." "You know, we can do it. I gave Chuy my word." So we got the medical school. Unbelievable. This is why I say that we people in Texas have a lot, a lot of things in common. There are people who will try to divide us, you know, they try to divide us based on race or, or, or, or even economic, economics. But I always say that you know, there are a lot of farm boys in West Texas need just as much help as a lot of the poor Hispanic families in South Texas. And if I help them just as much. After that, you know, I, I, I guess I got named chairman again of the Committee on Jurisprudence. And dealt with a very serious problem in Tulia where they arrested all those black folks on drug stings that were set up by an undercover agent who was a criminal. And I pushed, I pushed for legislation to provide for cooperation of, of evidence in drug cases. I work with ACLU [American Civil Liberties Union] and again, I got named Top Ten. That's a whole bunch of legislation I introduced. And there's no many that it would take me an hour to go through each one of them. And then I mean, I, I, I was tired, you know, because I had been, I'd had this for a long time and I don't make any money. I lose about a quarter million dollars a year doing this, but I don't do it for the money. They always say on the commercial, you know, for example, "How much is this worth? How much is that worth?" How much is being in the Texas legislature worth? It's priceless. We're making history. I was thinking of just not running again. I was, I served six years in the House my second time around. I just wanted to stop because it's a pretty grueling schedule. It's a lot of wear and tear on our bodies. I think sometimes I joke because if I start eating healthy, my body will go into shock because it just gets used to all, you know, tacos de barbacoa, fajitas (barbequed meat, beef skirt steak strips) and drinking beer and pachangas. What have you. All of a sudden ... I knew Senator Truan, who is an icon in South Texas fighting for families, one of the top senators. But I, I heard rumors he wanted to retire, but I wasn't sure. But he was taking a good friend of mine, Vilma Luna, [State Representative, D-Corpus Christi] around to South Texas to the Valley. So I had some suspicions there. Oh my god. I'm not going to impugn his integrity because he's a very good Senator. History will mark him as one of the best who fought for the people. I decided to run for the Senate. Jose Rodriguez from El Paso, went to law school with me. And he is now a county attorney. And he said, "Well, did you set up some steering committee?" "Steering committee? No man, we went to a pachanga over there and had some taquitos and decided hey, let's go. And I decided to run for the Texas Senate. And Carlos, Carlos Truan, my good friend, he retired that same day. Well, he didn't retire. He decided not to seek reelection as soon as I told him I was going to run for his post. He had been there a long time in the Texas senate. Like anything else, you always need to; you need new blood coming in all the time. So I decided to run. And I mean I thought I was going to get a, a free ride, but there are no free rides in politics, my friend. So what happened is that all of a sudden I had this lady Barbara Canales Black run against me. I didn't know who she was, but I did my research very quickly and Diana Martinez, who was the head of the Democratic Party in Nueces County [Corpus Christi]. Well, I later found out that Barbara Canales Black is a multimillionaire. The daughter of Tony Canales, who never held public office. She's got a law degree. A very beautiful lady. Very intelligent, very articulate. And we are, all of a sudden, you know, she's spending money left and right. I didn't have any money. As a matter of fact, there's a consultant by the name of Bill Miller out of Austin that did me a big favor. He... There was a front page story in The Monitor. It said, you know, "Juan Hinojosa is not serious about the Senate race. He's broke. He doesn't have any money." Well, everything is relative. I spent about seventy-five thousand dollars. I think Barbara spent about four hundred thousand dollars. Diana didn't have any money either. But they were after me because they knew I was the main person in the contest. And they really trashed me. The front page of my own hometown newspaper in The Monitor. At two o'clock that afternoon gente de trabajo (working people) started coming in. "Juanito, aqui estan diez, viente, cien..." (Juanito, here's ten, twenty, one hundred...) I mean, talk about pumping me up. For them, twenty dollars is a lot of money. Workers, trabajadores. La gente de trabajo. (The working people). I, I've been there now, serving there for pretty close to twenty-five, twenty-six years. They know who I am. It was such a, a, a, I felt so humble. La gente de trabajo (The working people) who gave me the twenty dollars or fifty dollars. And oh man, I'm just like wow. And then I got a call from the man himself, you know, Glen Roney, richest man in South Texas. He owns Texas State Bank. Dr. Gutiérrez: What's his last name? Senator Hinojosa: Glen Roney. R-O-N-E-Y. Roney. He owns Texas State Bank. "Chuy, I want to have a luncheon for you this Friday at my bank." He said, "If it's a fight they want, it's a fight they're going to get." So I go up there to the luncheon. I knew half of the people that were there. There were about fifteen, twenty people. And they knew who I was. Ten thousand, fifteen thousand, twenty thousand, five thousand. I came out of there with a quarter of a million dollars. OK. Let's get it on. It was a very tough fight for me because it was the, the, the toughest campaign I've ever been involved in. See, I was taking, I was taking on a legacy. They were using Hector P. Garcia [founder of the American G.I. Forum] She's the granddaughter of Hector P. Garcia. His legacy against me. "Es frijolero del valle," (He's a beaner from the Valley,) is what they used to call me. But I went up there and I spent almost seventy-five percent of my time in Corpus, Corpus Christi. She spent about three million dollars. I spent 1.2 million dollars that I didn't have. So, very hard campaign and so many issues involved. But I continued to hammer on issues that impact working families, la gente, la gente del trabajo, la familia, educacion. (the people, the working people, the family, education.) We talked about wages, talk about healthcare, education. This lady, while she was very smart and articulate, she had done nothing in her life, in terms of, of compared to what I've done. And she again did the same tactic that Eddie De La Garza used by saying I've got connections and I have money. She had connections and I got, and I've got money and this is what my uncle or my, my grandfather Hector P. Garcia.... This is what I've done. And had a litany of, of accomplishments. But it was a good race because the money she was spending was just outrageous. But they continued to make mistakes. They were very arrogant in that campaign. Very ugly. And when I campaign, I always campaign in my hat. OK? I used to pick cotton and I worked in the fields picking tomato, onions. I always wore a hat. When I campaign I always wear a hat. Where it's not proper, I don't wear my hat, but I've been wearing hats since I was five years old and I've got about fifteen, twenty hats. And for us in the Valley, and I only had a slice of the Valley, the western part of Hidalgo County, McAllen, Pharr, Edinburg to Starr County, to the, to the county line. I didn't have all of the Valley. I had Brooks County, Falfurrias. I had Jim Wells, Alice, and Premont, and then Nueces County, Corpus Christi. And it was a very interesting race because traditionally, historically, todo el tiempo (all the time) Corpus Christi is seen as the big city. And have always beaten the Valley. I took them on and I beat them. And they made so many tactical mistakes because they were so arrogant in, in their campaign, with all due respect to Tony. There was a debate that took place. Tony Canales was debating one of my, my key people out in Corpus Christi on a radio talk show. He called us gentucha, gente corriente de trabajo. (Gentucha, cheap working people.) He called me and my family. I got so upset that I, we, this is on, on, on the debate on the radio. We taped it and ran it on, on the radio so people could hear the way they think, what they thought, how arrogant they were. His, his...Instead of saying, you know, "I apologize. It came out wrong. That's not what I meant." They bought every single radio spot from Laredo to Corpus south. Every fifteen minutes calling me mentiroso. (liar.) I mean just trashed me and my family. I resent that very much Tony and your family. But we've gotten over it to a certain extent. But we won. And ... Very, very, very tough campaign. At six o'clock in the morning my whole family... When they start attacking my family, we just, we, we just work harder. Six o'clock in the morning I started in Corpus Christi. I'll never forget this. I knew I had won the race then. Dr. Gutiérrez: This is Election Day? Senator Hinojosa: Election Day. Six o'clock in the morning. Taban los carros alineados, pura gente, Raza. (Cars were lined up, people, Mexican people.) And I worked the polls with my hat on. As soon as people saw me, "Chuy, Chuy, Chuy & Gentucha, Gentucha & Chuy, Chuy, Chuy." Man, when you know that la gente (the people) wants to come out, man, we came out and kicked butt. And, and, and I went back and... Let's stop for a little while. Dr. Gutiérrez: So it was a hard fought campaign and you won? Senator Hinojosa: Yeah. And, and ... Dr. Gutiérrez: What was the margin of victory? Senator Hinojosa: I won by about fifteen thousand votes. Dr. Gutiérrez: No November opponent? Senator Hinojosa: No. I didn't have an opponent in the, in the general election. It was a tough campaign because people had so much money. They knew no bounds. They thought that money could buy votes. They thought that the legacy of Hector P. Garcia... And when I was in Corpus Christi, frijolero del valle (beaner from the Valley), but we showed them that we in South Texas, the Valley, had earned the right to be the leaders of South Texas, Corpus Christi stayed behind. And, and guess what? I'm very humbled when I'm in Corpus Christi. I stay at the hotel. I can't even remember the name right now, but it's where, I stayed there all the time. And when I go have dinner at the hotel up in the top floor, I look at about fourteen, fifteen skyscrapers. Huge city, beautiful city. And I'm humbled and honored that I represent Corpus Christi. And now Corpus Christi, my base there is very strong. All of the supporters that supported Barbara Canales Black... And also Diana supported me in the runoff, had come over to support me, because I was showing leadership. I've become a leader for them trying to get them to push and extended their economy. I have settled some of the most difficult situ, problems they had in terms of politics. They have too many factions. I don't get involved in factions. I deal with public policy and issues. I don't get involved in petty stuff. Because otherwise it bogs you down. I do public policy. What's in the best interest of the community. I was able to do that. To resolve one of the most difficult issues because I came in as an outsider, so to speak. And I looked at issues based on public policy and that helped a lot. So, people in Corpus Christi are very happy with me. I, I, I, I... If an, if an election was held today and I had an opponent, I'd probably get about sixty-five percent of the vote then. I, I won them over by hard work, by showing leadership, tackling difficult issues. And I'm not in this for my personal gain at all. I think it was a very sweet victory because my whole family was insulted. And my law office, the, the time that I won, was packed; just packed to the gills. And my dad had passed away. I danced with my mom. You know, she, she is eighty-one years old. La cancion favorite de la Raza. 'Con dinero y sin dinero, mi palabra es la ley... ' Dedicated to Barbara Canales Black (The favorite song of Mexicans, 'With money and without money, my word is law...' Dedicated to Barbara Canales Black.) I had my band out there. And I danced with my mom and my mom was super happy. It took Barbara Canales Black about three days to concede, and then she still didn't quit. She says, "I'm going to be watching you." "Well good. Maybe you'll learn something." And I'm not vindictive, you know. And, and I called Barbara and you know, asked her to help on the issues that were important to Corpus Christi and move on. But that's the campaign that I will never forget. But you know, I, I spent five months campaigning for this office. Five, five months, seven days a, a week, from six in the morning until one in the morning because people that I thought were my friends out of Corpus said I didn't have the energy nor the drive nor the money. Well, let me tell you. I got the energy and the drive. Maybe not the money. Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, but you mentioned you got some. Senator Hinojosa: Yeah. So, it was, it was a tough campaign and I was very happy because I think that being a senator is a, is a new experience for me. In the Senate, I joke about coming in at a time when the Republicans are taking over. It's been a, you know, Governor Dewhurst [actually Lt. Governor] has been, was a, was a very excellent leader during the regular session. Even-handed, been fair. Now, you know, he's changed to a certain extent. He's become a very partisan, pretty much misrepresented a lot of stuff to the senators and has become almost loyal to the Republican Party at the expense of Senate tradition, and protecting the Senate as an institution. But, you know, as a freshman senator, sometimes you got to be a little bit cautious, you know, because you don't know where all the traps are. And I am now. But I, I think I, I do very well from feedback that I get in resolving and bringing in more money for the Valley at a time when we were very short of money in, in the state budget. Dr. Gutiérrez: How does the Senate work differ than the House work that you've experienced so far? Senator Hinojosa: Well, I always joke about this, you know. In the Senate, it's like a barroom brawl, you know. Excuse me. In the House it's like a barroom brawl. There are a hundred and fifty, a hundred and fifty Senators, excuse me, a hundred and fifty House members. So it's very difficult to know each one very closely and very personal and very well. And so, you, you are up m the front mike presenting the bill, at the back mike anybody can go up there and ask you questions. They will throw you curve balls, fast balls. I mean, you'd better be ready. Some will throw you soft balls and help you out, but it's a no holds barred type of debate. And I love it. I, I just, that's where I learned my stuff. Because when I was in Georgetown, Washington, D. C., I organized the, the six law schools over there and I got, I got named president of the La Raza Law Students Association, so I got a background about all of this stuff. In the Senate, it's more collegial. We get to know each other. We are only thirty-one senators, so we, we know each other very well. Sometimes too well. We know our families; we know our background; we know our emotions to the point that, that we hold hands, you know, kissy, kissy, kissy, hug each other and go cckk, cckk, cckk, "Thank you, senator. Thank you, senator," you know. It's a regular institution, you know. I mean, people all respect each other. And I say that because you know, it's like somebody telling you to go to hell in a very nice way and then you smile about it. You get run over, you smile about it because it's just a, a, a, a, it's a great institution. We try to protect each other, work with each other. So, I don't, but there's a difference. And the debates are, are more gentleman like type of debates. Sometimes you are cut, you know, but they're not as...swoosh... as cutting where you draw blood like in, in the Sen, in the House. And we try to protect each other. Unfortunately, the only exception is redistricting. I mean, that is, you know, gloves off, knuckle fight, no prisoners taken. That's what we're in right now with the Texas Eleven here in, in... [Albuquerque, New Mexico]. Dr. Gutiérrez: Somebody once said that a political crisis is a moral crisis really. And do you see the Republicans becoming a White Party and the Democrats becoming a Minority Party? And the crisis is not only in the state, but across the nation between the haves and have-nots ... Senator Hinojosa: What is happening... Dr. Gutiérrez: ...and colors? Senator Hinojosa: Yes. Let me tell you something. The Republicans want Hispanics to become Republicans so they reach out to us. Yet they cut education for us, for, for Hispanics and working families; they cut healthcare for Hispanics and working families, which in many ways is the same. The needs are the same. They cut Medicaid for, for working families; they, they cut funds for, for prenatal health care for, for working families to the point. The Republican Party speaks with a forked tongue, so to speak. Their actions speak louder than words. They don't deliver on what they say. They don't take care of working families. They, they don't take care of minorities. They try to get rid of the few Anglo Democrats that are left even though they are conservative because what they are trying to push, and I truly believe this, their agenda is to eliminate all white Democrats so that the Democratic Party will be nothing but Blacks and Hispanics. That, that's my take on it. For example in Texas right now, that's what they are trying to do. Get rid of the conservative Democrats who are in Congress right now by again changing the, the lines. And you know, we used to do this every ten years after the census is taken. Now the Republicans are, are being very aggressive, which is not good public policy. It's not good for, for, for the nation as a whole to change congressional lines every time, when either Party, takes control of a state house and the legislature. It, it creates a lot of divisiveness, a lot of hostility and then the focus then is on raw power and not dealing with the real issues that impact families. 34 Dr. Gutiérrez: Let me ask you about a couple of issues. I know one you were very successful in and that was the battered women's defense.... Senator Hinojosa: Oh yes. Dr. Gutiérrez: ...battered woman's syndrome. Do you want to talk a little bit about that? The other thing I want to ask you is the, the, the toxic clump in Mission that's causing a lot of problems there with those people. Senator Hinojosa: You know, when, when, when we grow up and we are young, we talk about machismo and being a macho and being a man and sometimes we don't really... There's too much family violence. Instead of talking things out, discussing them, we are put in this situation where we beat up the wife, which is.... That, that shouldn't be the case. Now after Viet Nam, I was involved in, in, in hand to hand combat in Viet Nam. I was a squad leader. I, I mean, I lost all my desire to be violent or any type of violence. In the Battered Women's Syndrome, that's, that's the key issue because if a man were... If a man is beating up on a woman, the woman usually cannot defend herself because the guy is physically stronger and can kill her. Well, women... What they were doing is that after they got beaten two, three, four, five, six, eight, ten times they got fed up. And when the guy was sleeping, they would kill him. And they would go to the penitentiary for ten, twenty, thirty years. And to me, that wasn't fair because under the self-defense law, it says he's got to happen in the heat of the moment. So in other words, if you draw a gun on me, I have a gun, you are going to shoot me and I shoot you, its self-defense. If you come with me or you come at me with a knife and you're going to kill me, I draw my gun and shoot you, its self-defense. But now, a woman can't do that. They cannot react immediately unless they have a gun, so most of the time they don't. And even when they have a gun, usually the man will overpower them. So that they were going to jail in the hundreds because I went to visit the jails in Texas and they were full of women who had killed their husbands. There were a lot of them that killed their husbands because they had been beaten up again and again. And I always thought that was unfair. So, we passed the Battered Women's Syndrome defense for women so that if you could prove through documented reports written by police officers that you were beaten again and again physically, sometimes to a pulp by your husband or your boyfriend, that if you killed him, there would be a jury issue. So the jury issue believed her, believed you killed him in self-defense, you are found not guilty. Of course, I got a lot of death threats about that. I mean, I got a lot of death threats about that. And I, I had to, I still have the tapes. Poor guys would threaten to kill me. So I just, you know... "Why'd you do that.? You're stupid. You just gave them a license to kill." I didn't believe that. Well, don't beat up on your wife and you don't have to worry about that. So it was a big issue for me to the point that I defended, a defendant, the first one in the Valley using the Battered Woman's Syndrome before it became law. And I, I, I... Well, I won't tell her... Well, Sanchez was her last name. Pharr. And she was... Donna, Pharr out of the Donna area. And she used to beaten up almost every weekend. And the guy would grab her by her hair and drag her across the floor in front of her, their children, the, the mother and father. And finally she had enough. And on Easter weekend he again comes by and he drinks, you know, he drinks a lot. He was drinking a lot. And he said that he was going to come and see her the next day. She knew she was going to get beaten up. It was the, the pattern. And she asked him for some money for, for, to buy some dresses for Easter Sunday for the girls; Easter egg hunt on Easter weekend. And what happens is that instead of buying dresses for the girls, she gets a gun. Asked the guy how to shoot it. The guy shows her. I don't know where she, she bought it. Pawn shop, probably. So, she goes looking for the guy Saturday night before she, before he comes home to beat her up. And he comes out, he is coming out of a bar and with a girl, the barmaid and another guy. And then she points the gun at him. The guy doesn't believe her and he said, "Get in the car." That's what he tells her. So he gets in the car and she sits in the car. She's got the gun pointed at him. The lady that was with him takes off. So does the other guy. He lunges at her and she shoots him; eight times. And, and I got her off just on probation. But I was able to show all the abuse, physical abuse she took all these years. And from then on, that's when I decided to introduce some legislation. Dr. Gutiérrez: Uh huh. Senator Hinojosa: The other one is, is, I guess, [State Senator] Judith Zafarrini also helped me a lot with that, with that piece of legislation and she... finally got it passed when Governor Ann Richards signed it into law. So that was, it was, just a whole bunch of stuff that I, that I passed for, for, for women; for protecting the family really. You get angry, upset at your wife, just walk off. Come back in a little while. Go drink a beer or whatever or just, you know, go watch a movie, but don't, don't, don't use violence because it, it's, it's just not right. You talk about the chemical stuff at Hayes Sammons. That is a very serious situation where... We used to live about three blocks over from, from Hayes Sammons. It's a chemical company. Actually it's a chemical plant. We have all the chemical companies' ship through railroad, all kind of fertilizers, all kind of poison, all kind of chemicals for harvesting and it pretty much contaminated the whole area. And people now who live in that area within the, I guess, the infected area, started dying of cancer at a much higher rate than any other place. They have boils and those huge, raw... What do you call those? They would fester; just unbelievable. We have all the pictures. And, and we have these lawsuits. There are several clients that we have a lawsuit against the chemical companies. We called in the state to come in and try to clean up. They are trying to do their best. Not good enough in my opinion. And as a matter of fact, Celia, Celia Munoz had a home that she didn't know that the Hayes Sammons Plant people were dumping chemicals into her, her backyard. Sort of like a, a, a dump, if you will. And then when she was going to sell the place and, and, and they found out they couldn't sell it because it was contaminated with all kinds of chemicals. Poisonous chemicals that cause cancer, kill people, infect people. And the, I guess the, the name of the, they keep changing the name of the, of the... I forgot the name of that agency, state agency that comes in and cleans up the, the chemical, the chemicals that they find. Well, they came in and cleaned it up and sent her a bill for $1.2 billion. I'm serious. I mean, we were so upset about it. We harassed them and told them you can't do this and that and they refused to listen to us. Well, this session, we got it done. We did a legislation to go after them and then they got it done. And then they said, I mean, they got it done. They got it cleaned up, but they took out the lien for $1.2 billion. And they said, "Well, did you do this because of pressure from the politicians and the state senator and the state reps?" "Oh no, we did it on our own." I was so furious. I called and said them and said, "Hey, are you telling me that all the calls we've made were for nothing? That if we hadn't called you would have done it on your own? I want to know who said that and come and report to me." Oh, they apologized profusely. Yeah. Because they were, again, they were just playing games with people. But anyway, that, that, there's still ongoing litigation on that. That was Celia Munoz. But the, the people who lived around the Hayes Sammons area, they have been infected and have cancer. And we have the experts. They have established that it was caused by the chemicals that were, that were stored in the area. And also a lot of the kids, when we were young we used to play around Hayes Sammons. They had miles of chemicals just sitting outside. We didn't know any better. We wanted to play out there. I, I'm probably, I'm one of the few that never went to play there because my dad wouldn't let me, but I, I, but it, it, it is true. It is a big problem. Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, we, we left off two things earlier. I don't know if you want to get into it, if you have time, but we, we know you went to Viet Nam and you've made references to that, but you didn't discuss your experience. And you also went to Georgetown Law School and you didn't discuss that except that you mentioned that you organized some places. Senator Hinojosa: No. Dr. Gutiérrez: I don't have any other questions. Whatever it is that you want to talk about to wrap this up. Senator Hinojosa: I, I, I, will not go into the details on Viet Nam because they are very gruesome and, and it's an experience that for ten years after I got back from Viet Nam I couldn't sleep well. You know, I, I had very restless nights. I would have nightmares. But I, I, I got to tell you that it made me a stronger person. In Viet Nam ... That's why I always talk about that we are all Americans. You know, this, this is... our central politics. Where politics like Raza Unida [Party] and, and, and all the other Chicano organizations, the impetus, opening doors where, what we are today. And, and I truly believe in that because if you don't have the shock troops when you go out front and, and, and knock on doors and try to knock them down, it will never happen. Instead the score will always be the same. When you bring about change you are going to make people feel uncomfortable. In Viet Nam, at a very young age, I got to be a squad leader. But it's interesting because I had, I volunteered, you know, it was what I wanted to do and I went out there and I didn't know any better, but once I got into it I had no other choice. When they gave me a rifle and real bullets I said, "Oh, my god. This thing is for real." And in Viet Nain I, I remember my, my guys, you know, I had the guy, his name was Anggio, a WOP [without papers], Italian, you know, from New York. I had two Hill Billies from West Virginia. I had a, a son of a preacher, blue-eyed, out of Alabama. I had Suarez, a wetback, you know. And I don't mean to offend anybody, but just being, you know, the way it was at the time, not to be politically correct. Suarez, you know, he was, he was in the Marine Corp, my point guy. I had a, I had a, another Suarez out of L. A. [Los Angeles, California], Chicano from L. A. Two brothers, Black brothers, out of Chicago. I had Shellhorn, a redneck bronco rider out of New Mexico. But we all bonded, you know. We were there as, as Americans, you know. We're there as Marines. Semper Fi. And it's very interesting because we were family, you know. We protected each other; we lived with each other out in the jungles; we ate C-rations. Very, very, I mean very unique experience. I was involved in about half a dozen combat operations. When I was with the Vietnamese people, I, I respected their homes. I, I ate with them. Fish heads. Whatever they ate, I ate. I figured if it didn't kill them it wasn't going to kill me, you know. But it helped us in getting their trust. Dr. Gutiérrez: I don't know about that fish soup. That, that's pretty tough to put down the stomach, I could never get past the smell. Oooo. Oooo. Senator Hinojosa: Well I know. That's right. And, and it is very interesting though that when we came back from Viet Nam we were treated like, I mean I don't know, maybe we were, but we were not treated very well when I came back from Viet Nam. But I, yeah, that experience was, was, was, was there. I mean, I, I, it gave me a strong appreciation for our country, especially for my family and my community. But I have it now. At that time I didn't question the politics behind it. As, as I look at it back, I've got a different perspective. But it... During, during actual combat, we got to take each other, take care of each other. Truce. All my brothers have gone to the military. Desert Storm. Hell, one of my brothers is a paratrooper, one of them is Airborne. I had another one that was in the Navy and another one in the Army. So we all have done our duty in, in providing our service to. to our country in the military. It's why I get very much offended when somebody, redneck Republican right-wingers, when they call us wetbacks or traitors. I'm not a wetback or a traitor. I never avoided the draft like some of them did. And, and came back and you know, I was very motivated. I just, just...That's who I am. And then after that, you know, when I was in law school at Georgetown, that was a different experience for me. One of the best law schools in the country. We had students from Harvard, from Yale, from Seattle, from UCLA [University of California Los Angeles], from Miami and I felt out of place. I said, "My god, you know, what am I doing here?" All these sharp people. I think I had a nervous breakdown my first semester, you know. I was like in a daze. I could not keep up with the work. And at times I felt like quitting. I missed my family. I missed el valle, la Raza. (The Valley, the Mexicans.) I mean, there was no Mexican food there at that time. I missed, I, I just missed home. And it was hard for me to keep up. I mean, these, these people were, were the elite. I mean, cream of the crop. And there I was frijolero del valle (beaner from the Valley) trying to compete with them. And it was tough. But I was embarrassed, I said, "I'm going to be embarrassed if I quit. What am I going to tell my friends? That I gave up?" And I refused to give up. And there were about seven or eight other Chicanos there and we continued to form study groups; and we worked and we pushed. We worked. We, we can't quit. And during Christmas, my first year there, I did not want to come back to, to the Valley. Because I knew that if I came back to the Valley, I wouldn't want to go back to Washington, D. C. It was a very different environment, very different environment. I had never, I had never been to Washington, D.C. until 1 went to law school. But I, I made it. It was tough. Once you make it through the first year, my second year was, `pos (then) you get a little bit more confident. And, and then, by third year, oh you got a thick skin. And all of... What it is I do remember is just me and this other guy took in, in debate. We do debate the, the last year. Argument, two girls from Alabama. Man, they kicked our butt. They were good debaters. And but it was, I learned a lot because I got to interact with the cream of the crop students. I also did meshing.... Just about everybody had a 4.0, 4.0, 4.0, 3.9, 3.9; just super brains. But you know, that's not all it takes to be successful. You, you also have to have an understanding of life, common sense approach. What's right and what's wrong. Some of them had been babied their whole life. This is why you need diversity. You know, diversity in education. Because by mixing us together we made them better students and better people and better citizens. They also made us better students, better people and better citizens. So, it, it's a tradeoff. Dr. Gutiérrez: Any other comment you want to make about anything we didn't touch on or? Senator Hinojosa: Well, one thing that I will always tell people. Stay away from negative people, people that say no. You've always got to be positive. Never think well, this can't be done, this can't be done. I always think how am I going to do it? And, and push, you know, the energy and the drive to get things done. You always have to have a plan of action in place and nothing is going, nobody is going to come and give you things. You got to, nobody is coming, nobody is going to come to you and give it to you on a silver platter. You need to go out and get it. You'd be surprised how many people are willing to help you reach your goals. As long as they know that you want to do it; que traes ganas, traes animo... (that you have a will, that you have the spirit.) They will help you. And, and, and I'm... And this comes from all walks of life. It doesn't make any difference if you're gringo, Black, Hispanic or whatever. I mean, to me, we're all just one community. And, and it is up to you to get things done. Nobody is going to do it for you. Dr. Gutiérrez: Senator, thank you for all your time under the conditions that we are in. Senator Hinojosa: Well you know, it's kind of dark in here. It's getting darker and darker, you know, but...